2011: WoW, Not WoW

Monkey in the middle of a metal detector
Hat of the cousin of the tax collector
Automatic sensors in the president’s skull
Do you have yesterday’s time?
What up, dog?
– Was, Not Was

2011 will be an interesting year for MMOs.

Without a World of Warcraft expansion shipping (Blizzard seems to be holding to an 18 month cycle for shipping them) – although Diablo 3 will ship near the end of the year and be a massive, utterly predictable hit; and though we can expect to hear the first bit of Titan (my guess: MMO first person shooter or similarly actiony, if only to be as different from WoW as possible) and the beginning of the hype train for WoW’s 2012 expansion (new hero class of healer, to go with a druidic “Emerald Dream” as the next expansion theme), this will be the launch window for… everyone else. Or, as Rift put it in their new TV commercial, which neatly summarizes the not-quite-truth-in-advertising of every WoW clone:

Though we may be in a world eerily like it

So, in 2011: DC Online, Rift, Planetside Next, Tera, World of Tanks and a game based on a somewhat well-known science fiction license are all varying degrees of being confirmed to launch. We could also see titles such as Guild Wars 2 (disclaimer: yes, I work for NCsoft, no, I don’t know when it’s shipping, and no, I couldn’t tell you when if I did), Neverwinter, Faxion, and possibly Jumpgate Evolution and (less likely) The Agency and The Secret World.

That’s a lot of MMOs. It’s safe to say you’re not going to play them all. Or even most of them. Some of you will play some of them! And, thankfully, not all of them are blatant World of Warcraft clones – in the 2011 lineup we have action games, shooters, tanks (ironically, this one may be one of the most successful!), space games, and, of course, games including elves and skeletons and things that fall down containing pants. But still, a heartening number of NotWoW, which tells us the market may be learning that NotWoW may be one of the easier ways to make your place in a market where everything not called World of Warcraft is technically a statistical aberration.

The biggest event, and the one that will shape 2011 in terms of MMO development, will be, of course, the Old Republic. EA has bet somewhere north (maybe well north) of $150 million that Bioware has the secret sauce to bring an MMO to market that isn’t a statistical aberration. Could they be right?

On the one hand, it’s Bioware, which has yet to make a really bad game (even Jade Empire had its good points!), and they made the very wise decision of basing the game in their own George Lucas-free Star Wars universe of millenia past, meaning that everyone can be lightning-bolt flinging Jedi masters without plaintive cries of MY IMMERSION! from the license holders. It may also be one of the most anticipated (if not most hyped) MMO titles of, well, um, ever. Lots of people are going to buy this.

On the other hand, it’s Bioware, which hasn’t done such a great job with online so far – their attempts to leverage DLC content for their RPG releases have been slow to release, and full of technical issues when they do (one DLC pack for Mass Effect 2 shipped for the Xbox 360 initially as a massive file of nothing but zeros, which admittedly is an interesting way to cut development costs). Of course, this is why they made a new studio in Austin full of MMO veterans, and why EA gave them control of Mythic, and all sorts of other very good reasons to maybe possibly ship the most expensive MMO of all time at some point.

And it will ship in 2011. It has to. Even EA can’t afford a burn rate for another year that Bioware Austin is spending on development. It’ll be out, rest assured. And there are enough bitter veterans there to know that shipping an incomplete, yet successful game ….isn’t an option.

Are you thinking that I’m cheering for the other hand? You’d be wrong. I’m well aware that The Old Republic has a lot of hoops to jump through, and many mines to dodge. And I’m fearful that almost literally insane cost inflation of development will price all but Activision and EA out of contention as first-tier MMO producers. But all the same, I hope The Old Republic is a massive hit, with millions of subscribers, enough to make back its development costs and then some. Because the market needs real competition. Because Austin needs studio that has a successful MMO shipped within the past decade. Because a lot of my friends work there and I’m pulling for them. Because I’m a Star Wars nerd, a Bioware fanboy, and I’d kind of like a cool game to play.

And because in 2012, the Old Republic development team may get some sleep.

Your lack of faith in our ability to compete with Activision is disturbing.

The Old Republic will be make-or-break for the MMO industry in a lot of ways.

If it succeeds, it will show that the “big iron” still works – throw as much meat as you can at the machine, and crank out a huge project, and spend your way to greatness. It will prove that the subscription model is still potentially the most lucrative way of monetizing an MMO, at least in the West. And everyone will breath a sigh of relief. The old gods still listen to our prayers, now shut up and find more virgins, we have to get the sacrifices ready for the next expansion pack.

If it fails, expect a rethinking everywhere.

Expect huge studios to throw everything at Facebook/casual gaming YESTERDAY, in a frenzied, and possibly futile attempt to survive. Expect it to be very difficult to fund new traditional MMO projects, as even the most clueless venture capitalist will remember news stories about EA and the Old Republic and how Blizzard was the exception that proved a rule. Expect free-to-play cash shop gaming to be The New Order for almost every MMO, launched or not. In short, expect the apocalypse in 2012.

And expect all the usual suspects to ignore all the games listed above that didn’t do that badly, because they’re still essentially statistical aberrations next to WoW.

2011 is the year of WoW: Not WoW. This is when those of us who still enjoy the old-school massive content-rich expensive-to-produce MMO (and I number myself among them) find out if we can have nice things.

  • http:/./ds180.net/specialk klaitu

    I’m right with you there. I’m hoping SWTOR takes off like gangbusters as well. If anyone’s got a shot, it’s got to be Bioware with Uncle EA’s money bin behind it. I’m no expert, but from what I’ve seen I remain confident that they’re going to pull it off, despite what that EA Louse guy was blathering on about last year.

  • http://psychochild.org/ Brian ‘Psychochild’ Green

    Expect huge studios to throw everything at Facebook/casual gaming YESTERDAY, in a frenzied, and possibly futile attempt to survive.

    Already happened. Did you not pay attention to Metaplace? People went from wanting to be the next WoW to being the next Farmville in the last year or so.

    Expect it to be very difficult to fund new traditional MMO projects, as even the most clueless venture capitalist will remember news stories about EA and the Old Republic and how Blizzard was the exception that proved a rule.

    Already happened. Hell, it had already begun happening a few years ago. VCs started getting gun-shy once every single one of those bets they made on WoW-killers failed to bear fruit. I’ve been working with someone in the last few months who has successfully raised money for other (non-game) companies get shut out by VCs once the words “MMO” or even “virtual world” left his lips.

    Sorry, the success of SW:TOR will mean one thing: that the only projects viewed as worthy are ones that spend a movie levels of money headed by huge teams in companies with a decade of triple-A game experience. After Bioware blows their load and then milks that teat for the next six years as Blizzard has, it leaves precious few companies to pick up the tab on the next round.

    The future looks grim.

  • http://pixelsea.blogspot.com/ Tess

    I have high hopes for 2011, but I also have an iron in the fire, having worked for 4 years on one of the projects that will be shipping. Moreover, I want to see Austin survive as a game development hub.

    What’s impressive is to see so many things (*gasp*) shipping. Actually SHIPPING. Not canceled. Not lingering in development hell for another two years. Some people are actually finishing their bloody games, and getting them out the door. Some of those games are even marching out in a finished, polished state (if beta is any indication). This kind of lineup would have been considered an embarrassment of riches, in the days before WoW. Even now, it’s nothing to sneeze at.

    That said, I totally understand where Brian is coming from. A lot of the funding that is represented by the current barrage of 2011 MMOs was raised years ago. It doesn’t represent a current enthusiasm for investment in that market, and the moderate success of even three or four of those offerings might not be enough to refill the well anytime soon.

    That said, I don’t think we’re totally doomed. Things will be built, even if VCs aren’t interested. MMOs seem to pop up out of nowhere, sometimes. Who knows how many things are flying under radar, right now. (No, that’s not a allusion to anything I might be working on. Pixelsea doesn’t have that kind of moolah… yet.)

  • http://Website VPellen

    I wonder if anybody plans to release any MMOs this year.

  • http://Website boley

    I liked Jade Empire!

  • http://uk.europe1400.com Siegerich

    Awesome post. Thanks for the irony and keeping up the hope.

    Though I like to touch that bubble. Free-to-play including a quality drop will happen, even with a successful SWTOR. It would only slow its speed, not stop it.

    And about Bioware: I like Bioware. Already the name: Bio ware. It propably comes from the founders being doctors, but at the end, nomen est omen, and it is another reminder about their employment and company philosophy: bioware are the employees. Excellent games made by excellent people.

    I wasn’t worried so much about their first MMO which I’s also love to see succeeding, because yes they do their first MMO, but they already did their first console game many years ago, and it was great, I think mainly because they didn’t order from top to bottom, but did take all employees, all workers serious. Doing nothing to discourage the developers from putting their heartblood and souls into the games.

    What made me worry were two kinds of input:
    1. Rumors about deep quality worries from inside Lucas Arts.
    2. Bioware makes their best narrative games in the world mostly by strong plot characters and strong plots, less by variable narrative mechanisms (again, feel challenged to proove me wrong, if you like). What does this mean for an MMO? You go with your party, likely to have people in your group wanting and loving to read/hear the whole dialogs and people wanting to skip them. How is this conflict solved? How much of the required variations of an MMO (questing, gathering, exploring, crafting, grinding, raiding) can be covered in a strong narrative way? And then what about the less narrative parts?

    Good luck to your friends

    Btw.: I am bit confused, because I remember an older comment by you that you were doing some work having to do with MMO technology, but not directly with an MMO. Is that your current job or was that one before? I am just curious.

  • Pingback: Tweets that mention 2011: WoW, Not WoW -- Topsy.com

  • http://Website Marlowe

    “…WoW’s 2012 expansion (new hero class of healer, to go with a druidic “Emerald Dream” as the next expansion theme)…”

    Great article but I think you’re wrong with the above prediction. What the Wrath team learned, in a very harsh backhand smack across the face way, is that balancing prestige classes (AKA Deathknights) inside of a set of established, balanced (questionmark) classes is freaking crushingly hard. They’ve admitted as much in the forums and in interviews, and the sense you get is that no one calling the shots has the stomach to go into it again. It’s too hard and causes too much player agro. It took all of Wrath, up to and including the Cata launch for them to come to terms with DKs…and some DK specs are still broken.

    In fact if you look at a LOT of what Blizzard has been doing of late, you’ll see a lot of decisions being made, and stuff being done or not being done because “IT’S TOO HARD”. Class-specific quests, — one of the few things that gave real flavor to the increasingly homogenized classes with increasingly redundant and imitative talents — are gone because re-creating them in the new, post-cataclysm world was too hard.

    Similarly, all we’ve heard out of them for a few years now is how HARD itemization is. So for Cataclysm all of the interesting intricacy of the primary and secondary stats were stomped out (e.g., ArPen), and everyone got a Mastery skill that converted Thisums into Thatums (Int, Spirit for example), and itemizaton is so generic and homogenized that gear can probably be algorithmically generated with no human contact.

    Even the design of the (“grr, scary, hard!”) Heroics shows an avoidance of doing anything hard from a design perspective. They’re just a a string of thin, thin content powered by a big pile of instant-kill mechanics…all stretched out by miles of repetitive, generic trash. Anything else would be…hard!

  • http://Website Marlowe

    PS – And the “homogenized classes with increasingly redundant and imitative talents” — they are the result of deciding that designing and tuning raid encounters without being sure that Talent X (Heroism, Kings, etc) was available in the raid was….too hard!

  • http://Website Stormwaltz

    “Bioware… has yet to make a really bad game”

    But BW *has* made games that did not make back their production cost. Which, in this case, in the real monster under the bed.

  • Pingback: My Demands for 2011 « The Ancient Gaming Noob

  • Pingback: 2011 – First MMO Check Points « The Ancient Gaming Noob

  • http://Website wufiavelli

    Not sure a a growing free to play market would be a killer towards subscription market. Korea is swamped with free to play games. Yet they are still releasing huge budget P2P games (not sub based but people purchase time cards).
    Tera, Aion, Archeage (maybe f2p) blade and soul. I am pretty sure are shooting for P2P models. This is in a market swamped with F2P games.

  • http://www.wetgenes.com/ kriss

    I remember having the same thoughts about spore.

    This is probably going to fail and then you will not see that level of freedom and money thrown at a bunch of developers for a long time.

    Personally I’ll bet on it selling but not selling enough, which is the same as it not selling at all.

    So yeah, 2011 is the end of MMO development as we know it :)

  • Pingback: Subscription MMOs will Live or Die with SWTOR | Scarybooster

  • http://Website Freakazoid

    DC Universe Online and Jumpgate Evolution are both slated to be shit. DCUO because of terrible design decisions and heavy slant toward console gamers (so they don’t have to live up to previous superhero mmos), and JE because it’s been in development for too long, very little press, and several key members of the original jumpgate team have left netdevil. I don’t even think JE will see a release.

    Neverwinter, being under development by Cryptic, seems like it’ll be shit. 4th edition ruleset is believed to be easily portable to video games, but given Jack Emmert’s laissez-faire attitude, I don’t expect anything to adhere to the core material. I also expect the game design to be eerily close to CO and STO, pretty much ruining any immersion I could’ve had.

    SWTOR is going to fail almost as bad as APB. I do not see as much hype for this game than there should be. GW2 is getting more attention than SWTOR. It looks way better, artistically and functionally, and isn’t even half finished.

    While I look forward to a new planetside, my more immediate interests are in the ftp transitional mmos and a particular UO shard. Pirates of the Burning Sea, Champions Online, and the revival of IPY have me torn between how I’ll spend my free time the next couple months.

  • Pingback: Not-The-WoW Marches Forward

  • http://Website Lenin

    I think you’re right about World of Tanks. Better yet: if anyone (Dice) ever does a Battlefield game (bug-free) with the right persistent features — namely, a true, land/sea/air game that works really well, and has the right kinds of itemization and leveling matrices….. watch out! Sadly, EA would have been better off funding a project like that, better yet leveraging the work they’ve been doing to make BF casual-friendly, than spending all that money on TOR. They’re stuck with seeing through the latter investment, unfortunately.

    Regarding VC: I think there was a phase during the worldwide economic bubble when VC was going crazy looking for high-risk, “interesting” speculative development. The money floating around for games development was really just a kind of fluff offshoot of that speculative frenzy. Now? That’s all evaporated like the valley mist at sunrise. There’s barely any funding there even for the most high-profile current speculative opportunities. Facebook got its big recent infusions from…. Russia. Goldman Sachs. Not wild VC. Not much of a pool of funds there for future MMO development. The genre has gone into “safe bet only, aka… WoW” territory, for a good long while.

  • http://geldonsgaming.blogspot.com/ geldonyetich

    Seems to me that, the way MMORPG development is going lately, we’ve two major deviations:

    1. Action-based, probably highly-instanced, game. Initially fun to play, but with no real hook because they drop the social or virtual world overhead to appeal to the casuals. Without that hook, it shoots itself in the foot by trying to charge a monthly subscription. They can do reasonably well if they drop the subscription and go with a micro-payment model.

    Cryptic Studio games, Dungeons and Dragons Online, and APB fell into this category. DC Universe Online, the Old Republic, and World of Tanks will probably as well.

    2. A game that tries to do what World of Warcraft did better, only to find they get no more subscribers than the average EverQuest clone. Probably because much of World of Warcraft was, essentially, nothing more than a well-crafted-and-streamlined EverQuest, and what made up the difference was mostly this being the first MMORPG for a ton Blizzard fans. The clones may survive, so long as their development costs weren’t incredible, and nobody unplugs them.

    Warhammer Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Age of Conan, and (bolstered by Lineage numbers) Aion Online fell into this mold.

    I’m tired of both these categories of games. I’d like less of these and more early Ultima Online, EVE Online, A Tale From The Desert – except better. Virtual world games that actually leverage being a virtual world well. Now that would be some excellent escapism.

  • http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/ Sean

    The only true success story of 2010 was the move to F2P by LOTRO. It has more players than at any other point since launch in 2007 and it is making a lot more money with the switch to micro-transactions.

    It’s the exception though and I fully expect to see some major MMO closures during 2011.

    SWTOR can be a major success based on the Star Wars label but can it attract the mass of MMO players who have no interest in a sci-fi based MMO and who would rather play WoW because it is cute and they can socialize with friends?

  • http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/ Sean

    @Marlowe
    I 100% agree. WoW development has gone into full “safe mode” and when you make the money they do why would you do any different. The latest Cataclysm expansion is basically a very large single player module with a series of quests on rails and a multiplayer component at the end game. I would not even call it a proper MMO anymore.

  • http://Website Iconic

    I believe TOR will be wildly successful. I believe that while it won’t “kill” WoW, it will cost WoW millions of subscriptions and become the “next big thing.”

    Or, it will fail, and it will be another decade before we see another attempt at a true AAA MMO from any one except Blizzard.

  • http://Website Triforcer

    I’m in the camp that thinks F2P and big-budget, all-frills MMOs aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. If F2P can bring in AAA cash, they’ll be F2P with AAA money spent on them.

    I used to be a believer that F2P meant a hellish future of pink-haired anime avatars screaming “YOU BY 7.95 KAWAII PONY DESU NE ^_^” in my browser. But if LOTRO can shoot up profits after three years on the market, why can’t anyone spend like they did and start F2P?

  • Pingback: Of real life video games, dieting tips, and a young astronomer » Systemic Babble

  • http://Website Marlowe

    “Neverwinter, being under development by Cryptic, seems like it’ll be shit. 4th edition ruleset is believed to be easily portable to video games, but given Jack Emmert’s laissez-faire attitude, I don’t expect anything to adhere to the core material.” — Freakazoid.

    You’re absolutely right that Neverwinter looks to be pewpstainz. There hasn’t been a good AD&D ruleset for computer games since…uhm AD&D 2ED…

  • http://Website Marlowe


    Sean:

    @Marlowe
    I 100% agree. WoW development has gone into full “safe mode” and when you make the money they do why would you do any different. The latest Cataclysm expansion is basically a very large single player module with a series of quests on rails and a multiplayer component at the end game. I would not even call it a proper MMO anymore.

    Decided: WoW has hit a wall.

    SO this condition is actually an opening for a good design, with good art, good systems, and good code put out by a good studio. Critical piece: with a good reputation.

    BUT, like movies, with true MMOs you’re only as good as your last flop, and if you have a reputation for “meh” or “bleh” the reaction from the world of mmo players will be “meh” or “bleh. Not matter what you’re really shipping. There aren’t enough good reviews to overcome your history + the time invested by players in existing accounts + the time required climb the mountain in your new game. (Super sorry, Cryptic.)

    “The cat, having sat upon a hot stove lid, will not sit upon a hot stove lid again. But he won’t sit upon a cold stove lid, either.” — Mark Twain

  • http://unsubject.wordpress.com UnSub

    I don’t think SWOR will launch in 2011. It may be announced to launch, but it is going to miss that initial window.

    Why? It’s a new area entirely for BioWare and they are going extra big for it. There is a lot of complexity – all the different story lines, the different mechanics that each class is meant to follow, along with the basic MMO features that even existing MMO devs muck up on new MMOs (see: DCUO and chat system, auction house) – that will need to be ironed out.

    BioWare’s strength is in character development, but its key weakness is in gaming mechanics. MMOs live and die (to date) on gaming mechanics (i.e. the subgames are pretty weak and repetitive, the combat systems typically have some quirks). In single player games you don’t mind that your PC is overpowered, but it becomes a much bigger issue in a MMO.

    So, although EA will desperately, desperately want SWOR to release in 2011, I think BioWare is going to miss that first launch window because the game just won’t be ready.

  • Pingback: Daily Blogroll 1/7 – Better than Life edition - West Karana

  • http://Website dartwick

    This a is good year theres 4 MMO on that list Im looking forward to (after none last year.)

    PlanetSide Next, SWOR, Rift and WOT(Im already playing WOT.)

    And theres 1 or 2 other possibles that I wont mind playing if my guild joins them.

    And of course Ill be playing D3

    Im happy.

  • http://Website Vetarnias

    It’s another of those moments where I’m forced to agree with Geldon.

    In the first category, I tried DDO last year with a few friends, and we found it rather fun for what it was (a pure dungeon crawling game). After a few weeks, we took a break from it, vowing to return to it eventually; we haven’t so far, because it didn’t feel as though there was anything particularly worth returning to (unless you went with a subscription, which also didn’t seem worth it). You’re entirely right, the virtual world was particularly underwhelming, and I’ve heard it said that Eberron was one of the weakest D&D campaign settings. As an online game, it paled in comparison to a single-player RPG played in multiplayer: in the latter case, at least, the story revolves around you and your party. I remember the DDO tutorial, where you heroically save the island from I can’t recall what, but you’re supposed to be an immortal hero as a result — but nothing has changed for others. It’s WoW’s abuse of instancing drawn out to an absurd degree, the point where you’re beyond pretending that player actions have an impact on the world, and are now questioning whether there is a world to impact in the first place.

    After writing this, I wonder if the second category is that different from the first. Bigger budgets, more polish, and perhaps more attention to the game world, yes. But with WoW as the standard-bearer of this category, I have to reflect on whether the virtual world matters at all — it’s not just that it’s instanced, but that the developers don’t really take their virtual world seriously, with all those references to pop culture (Haris Pilton, etc). Age of Conan, at least, seemed to respect the canon it was derived from.

    Then there’s a third category, which I’m experiencing in Uncharted Waters Online: the good old-fashioned Korean grinder. Where the only goal is to grind harder than the other guys, and where your hardest grinders get advantages for their grinding. In this particular case, it’s sinking under the weight of multiboxers who blatantly cheat and a few hardcore grinders, armed with years of knowledge (from playing the Japanese/Korean version), who flip cities single-handedly and leave everyone else behind. I might actually get riled up about it enough to write a review of it one of these days.

    I too am looking for something a little more sandboxy, as it were, but I’ve become quite apprehensive about it.

    A Tale in the Desert: I went through the 24-hour trial a year ago, rather liked it, but I did not encounter a single player when I played it past the tutorial phase. It might be thriving for all I know, but it felt empty, even neglected (based on forum activity and news), and I did not get the impression it warranted a subscription.

    EVE Online: Played it with friends for two months in the summer of last year (that feels so far away that I thought it was in 2008, until I checked my gaming history). I was the first in and the last out, because I had bought the boxed re-release that came with two months’ subscription. Fun at first, then you realize that it’s just grind, with uninspired missions, with a large part of the game (which, we’re told, is the fun one) being out of our reach — and we didn’t quite feel like joining one of those über-corporations that would treat us as so many untrustworthy foot soldiers. Even though I decided to waive my usual disdain for SF settings, it was a disappointment; and it might have been worse if I had been exposed to the wonderful universe of 0.0 space, inhabited, it would seem, by the rabble of gaming.

    UO: Before my time. Played it briefly, after Renaissance, but my internet connection was too poor.

    Haven & Hearth: As independent as you can get, it’s developed by two guys in Sweden. But even independent sandboxes get infected by pricks who think it’s fun to plow swastikas in the middle of your village. (Gratuitous plug of my half-dead blog with a really awful name: http://puyc.blogspot.com/2010/02/triumph-of-swill.html ) Worse, the developers seemed to endorse all instances of griefing/ganking taking place, so I called it quits.

    Wurm Online: I actually liked this one, but it went berserk on the amount of time/involvement required from players. To mine a tunnel, for instance, you needed to mine it 50-odd times, at 35 seconds or so per attempt. Waiting 20 minutes just to break down a wall isn’t my idea of fun, especially on the free server, where quality levels were capped, and decay rates ramped up to the extent that you would return to the game after a month to discover that all your efforts had been undone by the passage of time. Nobody cared about anything they didn’t make themselves, including roads. Adding insult to injury, it was not unheard of for game assistants to go around removing the house deeds of players who quit, so you would return to the game and find someone happily settled over your old spot, while everything in your inventory would have decayed away. I played this game with, most of the time, YouTube on the side, because it was just tedious; and of all the time I’ve wasted playing games, the time I’ve spent playing Wurm (January-March 2009) is the most incomprehensible in retrospect.

    Now, for 2011:

    I really wonder about SWTOR. I won’t play it, but I wonder, if you drew a Venn diagram, how many Star Wars fans are likely to turn into MMO gamers (in addition to gamers who try anything new), a necessary demographic to tap into if you want to break even. Sure, you could always point to SWG, but is the franchise as prominent as eight years ago? Posterity has not been kind to Episodes I-III, and is it possible to look at any new Star Wars offering as anything but a George Lucas cash grab?

    So that’s the prospect for 2011: big names, big franchises, sequels, no originality. But the cycle of hype continues.

    On MMORPG.com, they held a poll for the “biggest disappointment of 2010″, and the most popular option was “2010 in general” with 39%. True, it’s a cop-out similar to the year when Time made “you” the person of the year, but I think it points to a jaded player base that is both sinking in its nostalgia of games past (UO, DAOC, EQ and even vanilla WoW) and seeing through the general bullshit that passes as AAA MMORPG’s these days. If SWTOR fails, and fails hard, it might well pull down what’s left of the MMO industry that isn’t 1) based in Korea; 2) dedicated to Facebook social gaming; 3) Blizzard; 4) under-the-radar independent.

  • http://Website dartwick


    Vetarnias:

    lots of stuff

    Just a couple of comments.

    I subscribe to DDO and EVE at the moment. So coulnt resist commenting there.

    If you dont like DDO enough to pay for it then by all means you shouldnt, but I think the game offers by far the best group adventuring experience of any online game.
    But you shouldnt compare it to what we have come to expect MMOs to be – its not a persistent world game(which is what we should replace “MMO with” – its an adventure server I guess and nothing else by design.

    Your comments on EVE however seem misplaced. As you noticed the missions get repetitive but the rest of the game – the good part – isnt really out of reach.
    Economics is power, and PVP supports the economics and then economics supports mindless PVP – you have to find a niche with in that you enjoy(or not is the game isnt fun for you.)
    The game isnt for most people but the real game isnt out of reach for a fairly new player, its just that the learning curve in any game where you compete against players(mainly economically) rather than NPCs is steep and painful.

  • http://geldonsgaming.blogspot.com/ geldonyetich

    Where I said, “Ultima Online, EVE Online, A Tale From The Desert – except better” the “- except better” part was recognizing that each game needs improvement in its own ways.

    Ultima Online had great potential. I remember opening up a hint book from back in the day and noticing that each of the creatures in the game had designated prey and hunters. The virtual world focus was paramount. Unfortunately, they weren’t prepared to transition the players to productive behavior when griefing was more fun than the legitimate activities they offered.

    EVE Online might have depth of background but the individual interactions are weak, it’s less a game you play and more a game you punch in a few decisions and observe. There’s a niche for that, of course.

    Another issue I have with EVE Online is that it seems the balance is a tad off. It’s hard for new players to be anything more than lackeys forever, unless they meet a corp that decides to hand over the reigns. Players are afraid to field the good ships.

    A Tale From The Desert is admirable in trying to pick up where Ultima Online left off but, as far as games go, it didn’t do a very good job of creating a truly compelling experience.

    Raph Koster’s generally the go-to man when it comes to creating a compelling virtual world, and his efforts in pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies would seem to be a continuation of those features we missed so much about Ultima Online. Yet, even for this pioneer, there seems to be a certain something lacking in the end result which prevents compelling and self-sustaining player interaction.

    As Jesse Schnell write in The Art Of Game Design, when it comes to game design, our Mendeleev hasn’t come. There is no periodic table of elements for ascertaining why the elements of game design work or do not. This is part of what makes game design such an interesting field: there’s a great deal of magic about to try and feel out and understand.

  • http://Website sinij

    Expect huge studios to throw everything at Facebook/casual gaming YESTERDAY, in a frenzied, and possibly futile attempt to survive. Expect it to be very difficult to fund new traditional MMO projects, as even the most clueless venture capitalist will remember news stories about EA and the Old Republic and how Blizzard was the exception that proved a rule. Expect free-to-play cash shop gaming to be The New Order for almost every MMO, launched or not. In short, expect the apocalypse in 2012..

    Please be wrong.

  • http://brokentoys.org Siegerich


    sinij:

    Expect huge studios to throw everything at Facebook/casual gaming YESTERDAY, in a frenzied, and possibly futile attempt to survive. Expect it to be very difficult to fund new traditional MMO projects, as even the most clueless venture capitalist will remember news stories about EA and the Old Republic and how Blizzard was the exception that proved a rule. Expect free-to-play cash shop gaming to be The New Order for almost every MMO, launched or not. In short, expect the apocalypse in 2012..

    Please be wrong.

    Now I get it. The Maya did end their calendar in this year because human kind stopped making games ;)

  • Borukmmo

    Even if it fails, there is always that unknown where a company comes out with something inventive.

    Imagine if a company were to figure our the Eve single server ability while bringing that together like wow on being able to play on older systems easily.

    Add innovation like Rifts soul system and bring in Allods ship system. Add pvp for those that love it similar to Warhammer but polished and that starts to make a good game.

    It helps to have a game/genre people associate with but it takes the games design team to really make a make it or break it game.

  • http://Website Iconic


    Borukmmo:

    Even if it fails, there is always that unknown where a company comes out with something inventive.
    Imagine if a company were to figure our the Eve single server ability while bringing that together like wow on being able to play on older systems easily.
    Add innovation like Rifts soul system and bring in Allods ship system. Add pvp for those that love it similar to Warhammer but polished and that starts to make a good game.
    It helps to have a game/genre people associate with but it takes the games design team to really make a make it or break it game.

    That’s cool, but how are you going to PAY for that? That’s the point about SW:TOR. If you can demonstrate that these major projects can still work, and they can still make a huge amount of money (IF they’re made right, for the right reasons), then there’s still a world to make this all encompassing game.

    If SW:TOR fails though, then the conclusion is going to be that it’s impossible to make a mainstream MMO that won’t be snuffed out by WoW, so no one should bother. At that point, you start talking about niche games with niche budgets and the question becomes “how do you carve out your niche?” Facebook and mobile gaming are the obvious answers.

  • http://Website IainC


    Borukmmo:

    Even if it fails, there is always that unknown where a company comes out with something inventive.
    Imagine if a company were to figure our the Eve single server ability while bringing that together like wow on being able to play on older systems easily.
    Add innovation like Rifts soul system and bring in Allods ship system. Add pvp for those that love it similar to Warhammer but polished and that starts to make a good game.
    It helps to have a game/genre people associate with but it takes the games design team to really make a make it or break it game.

    No serious WoW challenger will feature PvP as anything more than a sideshow. The mass market just wants to whack foozles and get their quest on in any game that has a meaningful progression system. Thus anything that could topple WoW will continue to iterate on Blizzard’s strategy of making an Everquest that doesn’t suck.

    That noise you just heard was the sound of Sinij’s heart breaking.

  • Pingback: Ready the Meat Sacrifices | Elder Game

  • http://Website Iconic


    IainC:


    Borukmmo:

    Even if it fails, there is always that unknown where a company comes out with something inventive.
    Imagine if a company were to figure our the Eve single server ability while bringing that together like wow on being able to play on older systems easily.
    Add innovation like Rifts soul system and bring in Allods ship system. Add pvp for those that love it similar to Warhammer but polished and that starts to make a good game.
    It helps to have a game/genre people associate with but it takes the games design team to really make a make it or break it game.

    No serious WoW challenger will feature PvP as anything more than a sideshow. The mass market just wants to whack foozles and get their quest on in any game that has a meaningful progression system. Thus anything that could topple WoW will continue to iterate on Blizzard’s strategy of making an Everquest that doesn’t suck.
    That noise you just heard was the sound of Sinij’s heart breaking.

    I believe there may be a huge market for a well made, mass market PvP focused MMO. I can’t base this on any scientific market research, but I know how many people have cut their teeth on WoW and have now grown bored waiting for the next big thing, and I know how many people enjoy blowing up other people in RTS and FPS games, not to mention PvP within WoW.

    Such a game obviously wouldn’t take away the pure PvE crowd, and it would have to really bring some thing engrossing to the table to justify being an MMO rather than a F2P shooter, but I don’t think it’s ludicrous to think that a PvP centric game could garner millions of subs IF it were done correctly.

  • http://Website Max

    I hope SWTOR would fail precisely for the reasons you stated. Market needs a good shake up with many original (albeit poorly funded) projects spawning up.

    Cloning safe ideas and choking any innovation in a diku mud theme park for next 10 years would be consequence of SWTOR success

  • Pingback: The Old Republic is ‘Make or Break’ for the MMO Industry « TORtips – Video tips and guides for Star Wars: The Old Republic.

  • http://Website Iconic


    Max:

    I hope SWTOR would fail precisely for the reasons you stated. Market needs a good shake up with many original (albeit poorly funded) projects spawning up.
    Cloning safe ideas and choking any innovation in a diku mud theme park for next 10 years would be consequence of SWTOR success

    Well, I think that the popularity of Minecraft has show that there is plenty of room for inexpensive concepts to spring up and take hold IF they truly have a kernel of some thing good in them (and they’re F2P).

    The only thing preventing small titles from having small success is that in a lot of cases they’re just not that good.

  • http://Website Vetarnias

    Minecraft isn’t F2P, which proves the point even more.

    Another example: Yahtzee’s Chzo mythos. Old-fashioned 2D adventure game made with some free engine, featuring somewhat interesting (if utterly clichéd) storytelling. (Well, okay, being designed by a sarcastic loudmouth who reviews games for a popular site helps.) But I don’t think he’s ever monetized them, successfully anyway. (He had “special editions” or whatnot that he offered to those who donated, but he’s since made them available free of charge.)

    But isn’t that interesting? The trajectory for video games appears to mimic that of film: what started out as a cottage industry soon turned into a major business sector, but became creatively bankrupt in the process. So, as with independent films, we’re all on the lookout for some small guy producing a masterpiece from his basement (no, Geldon, don’t raise your hand until your game is finished, circa 2027 :P ). But let’s hope it won’t turn into something frankly elitist and pretentious, like too many independent films.

    Will the large studios continue to exist? Undoubtedly, cranking out this year’s Madden, this or that Game of the Film, or any other title filled with numerals. But I’m less and less looking to what they have to offer. At the stage I’m at, a few high-profile train wrecks would probably delight me.

  • http://Website JinTetra


    Vetarnias:

    Minecraft isn’t F2P, which proves the point even more.

    You’re confusing “free-to-play” (in the MMO sense) with “free”.

    For the purposes of this discussion, F2P is understood to mean “no subscription”. Once you’ve spent the initial amount to be allowed to play Minecraft (just as if you had walked into a store and bought it), you never pay another dime for it, whereas you’re still dropping $15 a month to play WoW.

    So Iconic’s point stands: Minecraft, while not “free”, is indeed F2P.

  • http://Website Vetarnias

    @JinTetra

    “For the purposes of this discussion, F2P is understood to mean “no subscription”.”

    In which case, any game that you can play for free forever, after buying it initially, would fall under F2P. But strangely enough, I wouldn’t call “Guild Wars” free-to-play, even if you were to overlook the slew of expansions that you have to buy to keep on playing.

    Free-to-play, to me, means you can play the game as long as you like without ever paying money for it, including for the install. Sure, the existence of the cash shop might be driven into you at every turn with the subtlety of a sledgehammer, but you can very well behave like the perfect cheapskate and never pay a dime.

    You could say that the “classic” version of Minecraft, the old version of the game before he started implementing other features, is/was F2P, but I would also debate whether it was representative in any way (beyond the basic blocks) of the real Minecraft. The “real” Minecraft isn’t F2P, not even in the “please donate” sense.

    And I never challenged Iconic’s point; on the contrary, that “there is plenty of room for inexpensive concepts to spring up and take hold IF they truly have a kernel of some thing good in them” is bolstered, not diminished, by the fact that you have to pay for Minecraft, because it proves that the business model of the independent developer with an idea can work if adequately executed.

  • http://Website Guy

    F2P has never meant “pay for the box and then free forever.” It’s always meant totally free, coming from the more recent development of F2P MMOs.

    People don’t call Modern Warfare 2 F2P, because it most certainly is not. You’re are definitely out $60 or whatever if you’re playing it (legally).

  • Pingback: Meanwhile, in the TOR forums… « Harbinger Zero

  • http://Website Iconic

    Quit wasting time arguing semantics. No one cares what’s “really” F2P. The point is, without a monthly fee, players can afford to straddle the fence a bit and keep playing your game, even if it’s not their main choice. With a subscription fee, you better be confident that you can dominate your niche (or dominate the entire market, like WoW and maybe TOR). Otherwise, once people decide that your game isn’t “THE” game for them, they’re not going to play your game at all.

    Consumers are used to the idea of buying a new game every so often, but they’re not so keen on the idea of adding a new monthly subscription on top of an existing subscription for the same type of product. people who have cable don’t get a dish to supplement it, they either keep the cable or they get rid of the cable and get a dish. People paying 15 bucks a month for WoW either get rid of WoW to play your game or they keep playing WoW, and so far no one seems capable of creating a game that really attracts people away from WoW for more than a few weeks.

  • asdface

    The problem with taking WoW head-on is that it already has too much social momentum behind it. Even an MMO which is “better” than WoW will still find it extremely difficult to compete because:
    1) All of my friends play WoW.
    2) I’ve already invested a significant amount of time here which I would be “throwing away” if I left.
    3) I would need to re-invest all of that time and effort into your game to “get back to where I was” in WoW.

    Yes, some day the wave may crest for WoW, but I feel it’s much more likely to happen gradually rather than a one-shot “WoW killer”.

    If you’re specifically trying to steal people from WoW you need to be tricky about it:
    1) Your game needs to be “free” for me to play for a while: “I’m not canceling my WoW account, I’m just ‘taking a break’.”
    2) Your game needs to be immediately and consistently fun and engaging for many hours: “I’m not playing your game because it’s an MMO. That is to say, I’m not playing your game with the intention of investing time in my character (though this is happening without me realizing it), I’m playing it because I have fun.”
    3) Your game should probably have mechanics in it to encourage me to bring my friends over: “I am totally hooked on your game now, but I’ll only stay if I have friends here.”

    P.S. I actually don’t play WoW. ;-)

  • Talent

    It’s called EVOLUTION people. In the future, there will always be something bigger and better that comes to the forefront. And, usually, high financial risks are behind these ground breaking products. Does everybody think “WoW” will never be surpassed? Think again – that is foolish. It will, and if SWTOR does not surpass the Gorilla..then guess what? Something else will. It may take a little while and many blockbuster broken piggy banks, but it’s inevitable… If you don’t think so, just take a look at the world around you – if you ever get outside.