Bobby Kotick Incredibly Grateful Mark Pincus Exists

"YOU! STOP CREATING THINGS! I DON'T PAY YOU TO BE PRODUCTIVE!"

An article in this week’s SF Weekly asks the burning question: is Farmville’s Zynga merely evil, or a black hole of vile darkness from which no ethics can escape?

In light of Zynga’s phenomenal rise, one former senior employee recalls arriving at the company eager to discover what new business practices were driving its success in a market where other popular Web 2.0 ventures struggled to make money. What was Zynga’s secret? Not long after starting work, he got an answer. It came directly from Zynga founder and CEO Mark Pincus at a meeting. And it wasn’t what he expected.

“I don’t f**king want innovation,” the ex-employee recalls Pincus saying. “You’re not smarter than your competitor. Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers.”

Workers at Zynga were fond of joking (albeit half-seriously) that their firm’s unofficial motto was an inversion of Google’s famous “Don’t Be Evil.”

“Zynga’s motto is ‘Do Evil,’” he says. “I would venture to say it is one of the most evil places I’ve run into, from a culture perspective and in its business approach. I’ve tried my best to make sure that friends don’t let friends work at Zynga.”

“We’ve never before seen this kind of deliberate unconcern for the aesthetics of the experience,” says Ian Bogost, a professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology and founding partner of Persuasive Games. He says Zynga’s market-driven approach to the development of simple but addictive applications is “like strip-mining. They don’t really care about the longevity of the form or the experience. … That sort of attitude is the sort of thing you usually hear about from oil companies or pharmaceuticals. You don’t really hear about it in arts and entertainment.”

One of the more common complaints among former Zynga employees is about Pincus’ distaste for original game design and indifference to his company’s products, beyond their ability to make money. “The biggest problem I had with him was that he didn’t know or care about the games being good — the bottom line was the only concern,” a former game designer says. “While I am all for games making money, I like to think there’s some quality there.”

Note to Mr. Pincus: at least no one said anything about your dog.

Edit: Just in case there wasn’t enough moustache-twirling in the house, Gawker brings word of Zynga’s secret whales program!

By setting up a non-refundable, bank-to-bank transfer program, as documented in the Zynga email we obtained and have reproduced below, the company can avoid giving a cut of the revenue to credit card companies and processors. More importantly, the program allows gaming addicts to feed their addictions more conveniently; on Facebook Zynga’s game stores can top out at $50 or $200 in virtual credit at a time, effectively turning away the company’s best customers.

Just as a note: if you spend $500 on Farmville, you might have a problem.

  • http://www.antipwn.com/blog IainC

    They don’t really care about the longevity of the form or the experience. … That sort of attitude is the sort of thing you usually hear about from oil companies or pharmaceuticals. You don’t really hear about it in arts and entertainment.

    This is a guy who has never gone to see a summer blockbuster movie.

  • http://tprjones.com TPRJones

    So, the summary version would be “CEO of game company doesn’t care about games”?

    How is this any different from, say, EA?

  • http://Website Matt

    It’s not. He’s just more out spoken about it.

  • http://beafraid.com hellfire

    I’d be lying if I said that this wasn’t to be expected in larger (and more outspoken) quantities in the future.

    Welcome to being a “real” industry. You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have something something something.

  • http://tagn.wordpress.com/ wilhelm2451

    @IianC – Here, here! Spot on!

    And on a totally divergent note, can’t the press find anything more environmentally evil than “strip mining” to use as a comparative? I would guess that they do not even know what strip mining really is and how it compares to, according to Wikipedia, something like mountain top removal mining. Now there is some evil mining. In your face Appalachia!

    Besides, strip mining has lead to the creation of some of the greatest tractor-like machines ever built by man. You have to give it that.

  • http://Website Bhagpuss

    “You don’t really hear about it in arts and entertainment.”

    Not worked in a high street bookstore in the last two decades then?

  • http://geldonsgaming.blogspot.com/ geldonyetich

    Dear God,
    Why is it that you make being bad so very effective at succeeding in a capitalistic world?

    Dear Geldon,
    This is why I made you little pricks mortal. Get the hell off my lawn.

  • http://Website Mist


    TPRJones:

    So, the summary version would be “CEO of game company doesn’t care about games”?
    How is this any different from, say, EA?

    EA has gotten better, to gamers anyway. Just not better to their employees.

  • http://wowpanda.blogspot.com/ wowpanda

    @wilhelm2451 yep IainC got it spot on!! I think a lot of those professors are either dumb or pretend to be naive.

  • http://Website mcl

    No real comment this time.

    Just a tractor:

    http://tinyurl.com/35jbylz

    –m.

  • http://Website Boanerges

    Weird. It has to be a wire transfer. They don’t accept ACH (which is free). Wire transfers are much harder to do and have fees associated with them (often to send OR receive). The only benefit I can think of is that it’s harder to disput (which has a certain appeal considering the subject).

    This does make a lot of sense since Zynga has poor controls and makes you pay for better ones. Most of the things worth doing in their games require the Zynga cash, not in-game currency.

  • http://Website Iconic

    This is the future of gaming folks (or I guess it’s actually the present of gaming).

    Everything is shovelware.

  • http://geldonsgaming.blogspot.com/ geldonyetich


    Iconic:

    This is the future of gaming folks (or I guess it’s actually the present of gaming).
    Everything is shovelware.

    Well, I guess that’s one way to get the mainstream so thoroughly disoriented in gaming that it becomes a nice little crafty thing again.

  • http://Website gyrus

    Okay… so I have a really naive question:
    If it is well known that Zynga is ripping off other peoples’/companies ideas – then why haven’t they been sued?

    (I knew about Farm Ville and thought that FarmTown was a development with consent since they were both on Facebook at the same time IIRC? {I don’t have a Facebook account – my wife does})

  • http://geldonsgaming.blogspot.com/ geldonyetich


    gyrus:

    Okay… so I have a really naive question:
    If it is well known that Zynga is ripping off other peoples’/companies ideas – then why haven’t they been sued?

    Because Blizzard Vs Westwood determined that doesn’t seem to work.

  • http://Website Vetarnias

    @Gyrus

    “If it is well known that Zynga is ripping off other peoples’/companies ideas – then why haven’t they been sued?”

    I suspect it’s because of the Wonderful American Legal System at Work, where what matters isn’t whether you have a case, but whether you have enough financial clout to enforce it — in this case, to go against a company with unlimited legal resources, with a business model that has shown itself impervious to even a bad name, as demonstrated by FarmVille’s higher player figures. (If you want another, and, in the light of this article, particularly ironic, example, look up the legal battle between the SF Weekly and its competitor, the San Francisco Bay Guardian.)

    At least we have the MafiaWars example, even though it was settled out of court; and I particularly liked the twist where the former Zynga employee had the gall to say the Mob Wars creator who ended up suing them learned his business model from Zynga before breaking ties, as if that made it perfectly acceptable for Zynga to allegedly plagiarize his game.

  • http://Website Foamy

    Also that you can’t sue people for stealing your ideas, you can only sue them for implementing those ideas in the same way as you (…and even then that’s not a given depending on which branch of IP law you fall under). Which is why FPS developers aren’t merrily suing each other.

    There’s no formal legal protection for an idea – if you don’t want people stealing it, make them sign an NDA or just don’t tell them.

    As Vetarnias says, often the only merits for the case are having enough dollars to follow it through – IP discovery lawyer fees are INCREDIBLY expensive and it’s often cheaper to settle out of court rather than go through months or even years of court hearings, even if one of the parties is clearly wrong.

  • http://Website gyrus

    Thanks – I suspected as much.

    Wouldn’t be the first time a US Software company has ripped off ideas from another company and got away with it just because they have more money.
    (M$ Windows was more than a little similar to Acorn’s RISC OS for example)

    Still, I guess that means when it’s done to them they can’t complain either.

    So… who want’s to help me write “FarmYards”? ;-D

  • http://Website Vetarnias

    @Foamy

    “Also that you can’t sue people for stealing your ideas, you can only sue them for implementing those ideas in the same way as you (…and even then that’s not a given depending on which branch of IP law you fall under). Which is why FPS developers aren’t merrily suing each other.”

    True, you can’t sue for ideas (although the US Patent and Trademark Office has been playing this dangerous game for a while; see the recent case of Paul Allen v. everybody with deep pockets except, you guessed it, Microsoft). I remember mentioning on this blog the case of a woman who sued the producers of “Falcon Crest” claiming they had stolen ideas from her novels; all the producers had to do to win the case was to produce an even older novel on similar themes, to demonstrate that even though what they produced was formula crap, it wasn’t plagiarism if everybody and their novelist aunt had been there before. It’s like saying I could be sued for writing a 1930′s era detective novel where the butler did it.

    I’ve never played a Zynga game (I’m not on Facebook), but based on reading various assessments here and there, I’ve grown convinced that what they produce is, indeed, formula crap, in itself no basis for a lawsuit (except maybe for the impending collapse of western civilization, but were that the case I’d go after Blizzard first). However, there are those cases where you compare the two games and think to yourself, “hmm, there’s more than just ideas that look similar here”. The entire artwork is done in the same style. But then, Farm Town just took the style from Zynga’s earlier game YoVille, according to this site: http://www.insidesocialgames.com/2009/07/15/with-farmville-zynga-joins-the-facebook-farming-fray/ . And then you could say it’s a blend of traditional techniques/déjà vu: The farm’s appearance is a blend of every iconic treatment of farm life that doesn’t actually involve getting one’s hands dirty, from Norman Rockwell to animated cartoons (see the “U.S. Acres” segment of “Garfield and Friends”), and the avatars seem to combine the traditional cartoonist’s technique of enlarged heads, along with traces of God knows what, South Park, American knock-off anime, even Margaret Keane.

    So it might be a coincidence, and in any case, by no means an original artistic statement; one just hopes that it won’t become the norm for “social games”.

  • http://secondthoughts.typepad.com Prokofy Neva

    Oh, you Marxists.

    Ian Bogost?! You have *got* to be kidding. His games aren’t *fun*. They are didactic and hortatory, flogging the leftist line. Even you don’t play them, so why quote him so glibly?

    Millions of people have *fun* with these games and they don’t mind spending on them. They don’t need high-minded ideologues like Richard Bartle to construct their fun.

    Surely there is room on the Internet for all kinds of games, not just the old-school classic kind that promote your utopian socialism.

    Farmville works because it taps into real-life memes that people identify with — lots more than identify with killing orcs. And that’s ok. You’re just jealous.

    I’m glad to hear you’ve accepted my thesis that game designers can be evil and weld evil into their games, hower, oops, you did that unwittingly I bet.

  • Scott Jennings

    > Farmville works because it taps into real-life
    > memes that people identify with — lots more
    > than identify with killing orcs. And that’s ok.
    > You’re just jealous.

    Um, no, not really. What am I supposed to be jealous of, Zynga’s skill at copying other people’s games?

    > I’m glad to hear you’ve accepted my thesis
    > that game designers can be evil and weld
    > evil into their games

    You missed a much better example: http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/08/dystopia-online/

  • http://Website Foamy

    Patenting is an odd kettle of fish, because of the subjective notions of what constitutes “novel” and “non-obvious” inventions. For example, it’s perfectly legitimate to patent a new device “constructed” by plugging two off-the-shelf Radioshack components together… provided that no-one else has considered doing it that way before. In fact, one large mobile operator was sued for doing exactly that because they had the idea of plugging two components together 5 years after someone had patented it. They ignored the first letter from the lawyer because their engineer told them it was just two standard components, and then were rather stunned when the judge whacked them for willful infringement damages too because they continued to trade while knowing they had violated the patent.

    The somewhat common thread is that there can’t be prior art to the patent being approved – which includes the inventor telling anyone about it. University IP departments tend to throw their hands up in despair since the first thing most postgrads like to do is go announce their findings at a conference, which completely destroys any attempt to patent the new discovery. On the other end, there’s also the practice of “submarine patents” that Paul Allen seems to favor, where patents are registered but never formally announced outside the patent office… until someone infringes and it suddenly appears. Blackberry ran afoul of one of these, and was almost shut down if it weren’t for the federal government stepping in because the RIM network was one of the few that continued to operate during 9/11 (they settled out of court for around $300million if I remember correctly… a few months before the discovery of prior art which would have invalidated the patent in question).

    There’s a guy in Australia who likes to submit ridiculous and impractical patents just to demonstrate how silly the whole process is. For example, designs for carts where the horse pushes instead of pulls, and a long plastic slide stretching from Antarctica to transport ice via the force of the Earth’s rotation. Since you don’t have to build a working prototype and they satisfy the various patent pillars, they are all, reluctantly, approved.

  • http://Website VPellen

    Prokofy, what the hell is it with you and Marxism and orc slaughter? Did your old highschool crush run off with a bloody Russian elf or something?

  • http://Website Anticorium

    The real-world meme of agriculture, by the way, is also why Harvest Moon: A Magical Melody was the top-selling console title of 2009, and SimFarm is the most successful Maxis title of all time.

  • http://Website Toastrider

    Farmville works because it’s easy to play and appeals to the broadest spectrum (also known as the ‘lowest common denominator’). Not because of any magical memetic theory.

    But then, monkey always looks for Marxists under their bed.

  • http://cnn.com ubvman

    The “Dystopia Online” is coming true albeit with tractors and farming equipment, not with elves and orcs. The Chinese were only ahead by three years, not five.

    BTW, how many people who play Farmville actually have “real-life memes” related to agriculture? Meme-shmeme! Its the old “press lever get pellet” school of addictive design with direct bank money transfers.

    I do agree thought that the success of these games are a good poke in the eye of old-school online game commentators that have their heads up their arse.

  • http://Website Hatch

    Holy crap Lum, how can you talk about Zynga ripping off other peoples ideas when every MMO out there is bending tolkien over the table, inserting a tube and pumping 90% of its content into the game via his rectum?

    Zynga looks a lot to me like the average of every MMO publisher, except profitable.

  • http://Website Dren

    Farming is naturally great for this kind of addictive gaming. As a player, you buy and work at setting up a process. Then you wait awhile (2 hours up to 3 days,) and come back to find rich rich items for you to harvest and sell! Rinse and Repeat.

    It gives you a feeling of producing something and building your producing power at the same time. You can be successful in a virtual life where real life hands you disappointments.

    I suspect this could be done with a business type game, but I think that strikes too close to home for most people. Actual farming only relates to a very small percentage of the population and those people are way way too busy to play on computers!

    I also think it is because everyone has a little corner of their mind that continuously tries to prepare for the “end of the world.” We all know that he-who-has-the-food, will have all the power. Oh, and the guy with the shotguns. You know, for the zombies.

  • http://Website Dren

    Hmm, that last paragraph I wrote has an idea for a new game in there I think. Do exactly like Farmville but your farm is your last refuge in a post-apocolyptic world. Somebody make that game right now. I’m having way too much fun with it in my head, which is causing me to think way too much.

    “Zombies broke through the NW wall last night. 12 units of corn was destroyed before your security guns tore the enemies down. Good news, their bodies have boosted your fertilizer rating by 50 units. I suggest you upgrade your walls with broken glass for 20 units to help slow down your losses in the future!”

  • http://Website Elovia

    @ Dren

    Plants vs Zombies

  • http://Website EpicSquirt

    Name a summer blockbuster movie that is worse than any of Zynga’s games.

    And no, “The Social Network” doesn’t qualify.

  • http://Website Arroth Thaiel

    @ EpicSquirt

    Transformers 2?
    X-men 3?
    Pirates of the Carribean 3?
    Transporter 3?
    Spiderman 3?
    Spiderman 2?
    Spiderman?

  • http://Website Arroth Thaiel

    Still @ Epicsquirt

    Oh…..

    Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

  • http://www.antipwn.com/blog IainC


    EpicSquirt:

    Name a summer blockbuster movie that is worse than any of Zynga’s games.
    And no, “The Social Network” doesn’t qualify.

    That wasn’t my point. In both cases the creators are making a product that does not aspire to quality but rather one that is designed to chase the highest possible return from the least discriminating audience possible. Just because one form is subjectively ‘better’ than another does not excuse the practice.

  • http://Website JuJutsu

    Since noone else here can or will speak for the lumpenproletariat of gamers let me do it. IanC can go watch arthouse movies if he wants; the rest of us non-discriminating audience members can be happy with the summer blockbusters.

    What I find disgusting is the corporate culture, not the game.

    If only there were a website for elitist jerks…oh wait….

  • http://Website Vetarnias

    @JuJutsu

    It isn’t so much that you can keep on watching arthouse movies if you like, while the rest of the members will go to summer blockbusters.

    In fact, the film/MMO comparison fails in one key aspect: unlike an MMO, a film has (1) a very limited “prime-time” shelf life before it becomes a relic from the past, and (2) after this stage, it can be enjoyed at your leisure without encroaching on new films. Nobody would cut funding to the next Batman film because you’re watching “Casablanca”.

    Were films like MMO’s, it wouldn’t be whether “Avatar” beat out the competition on its opening weekend, with its direct competitors perhaps scoring a “succès d’estime” leading to a later reappraisal by public and critics alike; it would become a matter of “Avatar” beating out the competition every weekend, not just for two months (as might be the case with a major blockbuster), but *for five years*, with new footage inserted along the way to sustain interest. And while there would be nothing stopping you from seeing other films beside “Avatar”, how many players of MMORPG’s consider it worth while to maintain subscriptions to two MMO’s concurrently? Quite clearly, if you can’t topple Number One, you have failed, and people who enjoy playing Number One will stick with the status quo — hence the growing impression that only people capable of killing World of Warcraft would be Activision-Blizzard themselves.

    To recap, the film/MMO comparison would work if “Avatar” remained in theatres forever, and if the sole purpose of its competitors were to attempt to knock it out of first place, which would lead to studios producing AAA films designed not in pursuit of some inherent quality, but exclusively in terms of how well they can serve as “Avatar”-busters; sounds familiar?

    It might be that the only studios/developers capable of escaping this would be those who would gladly promote “arthouse” games. In MMO’s, I think it unlikely that the equivalent could exist, on a subscription model anyway.

    I remember an interesting article in The Escapist that detailed how video game production economics now resembled Hollywood’s (escalating budgets leading to the pursuit of the lowest common denominator, etc.), which might well mean that we will never get a AAA game that will be more significant or profound than mere eye candy. I was watching a YouTube playthrough of BioShock recently, which I never played myself, and I was thinking: “If this is supposed to be a deconstruction of Ayn Rand’s philosophy, why is the player’s main role to be shooting people?” But you can still get small, independent games that still strive on quality; but it’s only a matter of time before someone starts thinking how much better those games would have looked with a large budget. Except maybe for purists and elitists who like their games to be as obscure as possible to those not in the know, and as out of reach as possible to the general public; Dwarf Fortress comes to mind as a classic example. The logic, in this case, is quite identical to that of the indie film hipster: the least popular, the better, which is quite unfortunate, as the game isn’t played for such core reasons as fun, but purely as a status symbol.

    Zynga and other “social gaming” companies, on the other hand, went in the opposite direction. Although there are plenty of elitists in the gaming world, there are no Rolexes or Blahniks; its status symbols are not easily monetized. And to the Zynga types, the lesson is even clearer: you don’t become rich in gaming by being exclusive. But the lesson they also learned is that it’s foolhardy to rush into AAA-game production when your sole aim is to be as derivative as possible, especially when the success of AAA-level MMO production is based on your ability to convince existing gamers to abandon World of Warcraft for your game. That was Funcom and Mythic’s mistake, among others.

    Instead, Zynga and the “Social Gaming” gurus followed an approach not unlike FDR’s court-packing threat: if we can’t convince existing gamers to play our game, we’ll turn more people into gamers. Listening to them, each and every one of us harbours a gamer-in-denial; and yes, their sales pitch involves more than a fair dose of proselytizing.

    I know, it seems I’m going headlong into yet another casuals-versus-hardcore debate, but what I’ve been increasingly grappling with is the futility of gaming, in all its forms, especially at a time when our institutions are heading down the toilet (which makes Prokofy’s anti-Marxist rants even funnier, by the way; Marx is the least of our concerns).

  • http://cnn.com ubvman

    In short, the Movies to Online Gaming analogy does not work! :-)

  • http://www.antipwn.com/blog/ IainC


    JuJutsu:

    What I find disgusting is the corporate culture, not the game.

    That was my point too. Or do you think the accountants who run Hollywood have a materially different outlook to Mr Pincus?

  • http://Website JuJutsu


    IainC:

    JuJutsu:
    What I find disgusting is the corporate culture, not the game.

    That was my point too. Or do you think the accountants who run Hollywood have a materially different outlook to Mr Pincus?

    I don’t think accountants in any business have a different outlook. Gaming companies are companies I don’t expect them to forgo profit for some higher calling. Some businesses need creativity and innovation others not so much. There are 2 pencils laying on my desk atm. Whoever makes these Osiris pencils isn’t doing anything creative with their product…in fact they don’t even have erasers on one end they make and sell cheap ass pencils to chintzy customers like the biz school that employs me.

    I don’t mind companies that make generic products that live off razor thin margins. I do mind asshat corporate leaders who think the way to run an efficient organization is with a rancid culture.

  • http://www.antipwn.com/blog IainC


    JuJutsu:

    I don’t think accountants in any business have a different outlook. Gaming companies are companies I don’t expect them to forgo profit for some higher calling. Some businesses need creativity and innovation others not so much. There are 2 pencils laying on my desk atm. Whoever makes these Osiris pencils isn’t doing anything creative with their product…in fact they don’t even have erasers on one end they make and sell cheap ass pencils to chintzy customers like the biz school that employs me.
    I don’t mind companies that make generic products that live off razor thin margins. I do mind asshat corporate leaders who think the way to run an efficient organization is with a rancid culture.

    Yes pencil manufacturers are an excellent example of companies in the ‘arts and entertainment industry’ specifically referred to in the original quote.

    Wait…

  • http://Website Elovia


    Vetarnias:

    @JuJutsu
    … with new footage inserted along the way to sustain interest.

    This phrase brings to mind “Star Wars, Episode IV” (yeah, the first one to come out). How many different video releases were there with extra CGI enhancements? Also to mind are director’s cuts and extras on DVD releases.

    /shrug

  • http://Website Gx1080

    I’m still sure that some of that must be illegal. Or at least bring some lawsuits.

    But, who cares. Money flows, you are a god.

  • http://Website JuJutsu

    “Yes pencil manufacturers are an excellent example of companies in the ‘arts and entertainment industry’ specifically referred to in the original quote.

    Wait…”

    Some of them are. Since you don’t realize that pencils can be used for art

    http://www.jdhillberry.com/drawing_pencils.htm

    Oh wait, only companies that make and sell art or entertainment count. They’re ‘special’ somehow.

    Buy a clue. They’re companies. They make a profit or go away. Some try and do it with simple derivative products some don’t. The market decides which get to continue and which ones don’t. Only elitist asshats spend any significant time deriding someone elses gaming preferences as ‘lowbrow’. If you don’t like Farmville then don’t play it. I don’t like it and I don’t play it but I don’t pontificate about it.

  • http://www.antipwn.com/blog/ IainC

    You have entirely missed the point. Try reading the article and my original comment again, see if the penny drops.

  • http://Website Brask Mumei


    Vetarnias:

    @JuJutsu
    Except maybe for purists and elitists who like their games to be as obscure as possible to those not in the know, and as out of reach as possible to the general public; Dwarf Fortress comes to mind as a classic example. The logic, in this case, is quite identical to that of the indie film hipster: the least popular, the better, which is quite unfortunate, as the game isn’t played for such core reasons as fun, but purely as a status symbol.

    I take offense at your Dwarf Fortress example. People don’t play that because it is obscure. They play it because it is fun. It is obscure because its UI is unapproachable and its display unparseable.

    But the people I see enjoying it don’t praise its merits in being “indie” or “underground”. They see these as faults and strive to help other people overcome them to enjoy the core of the game underneath.

  • Lenin

    Actually who’s stupid enough to waste time and money on Farmville, when there’s a much higher art form out there available for free: lesbian porn? Much better click-reward ratio for the player, as well. I’m surprised Pinkus was so dumb he never thought of going into the porn industry instead; far more profitable. Well, except the production quality standards are beyond his reach.

  • http://Website Vetarnias

    @Brask Mumei

    “I take offense at your Dwarf Fortress example. People don’t play that because it is obscure. They play it because it is fun. It is obscure because its UI is unapproachable and its display unparseable.”

    That’s the thing: I like Dwarf Fortress. I’m awed by its depth and with the possibilities it offers; and I drool when I am facing a game that offers me endless micromanagement — provided that the interface makes it convenient, instead of a clickfest.

    But look at the game’s forums, and you’re bound to come across some fan who thinks that the history of computer gaming has been travelling down a gigantic toilet drain sometime since the late ’80s or early ’90s — sometime after roguelikes, and pretty much at the same time as the explosion in home computing. A game like DF, with its nostalgic throwbacks to that simpler era that was spared mass-consumer appeal, plays such elitists like a fiddle.

    Elitists aren’t bothered that Dwarf Fortress’ UI *is* unapproachable, and the display is as opaque as it can get; in fact, they like it that way, so it can weed out those who carry the germ of mainstreamism. But I’ll admit that it’s arguable whether this elitism extends to Bay 12 itself, even though even Toady has admitted he’s built his game according to his childhood nostalgia. (I am around the same age as he, but I got my first computer in 1996, and my first third-party computer game in 1999 — Baldur’s Gate — so I don’t share this nostalgia with him.)

    And in the case of the interface, Toady seems more interested in adding material on top than in introducing simplification or consistency to what already exists — hence my oft-mentioned comparison of DF’s development to the architecture of the Winchester Mansion: too busy building it to change anything. Maybe the true reason why his game has a messy interface is that he can’t be bothered to correct it.

    If he bothered with simplifying things (and I don’t mean “dumbing it down”, I just mean making the interface, as you say, more approachable), and maybe integrating one tileset that isn’t ASCII, it would probably be far more popular than it is now. But I’m sure there’s a subset of the game’s players who would pooh-pooh those improvements precisely for that reason; people who remind me of hipsters who lose interest in anything that is no longer obscure and exclusive.

  • http://Website Brask Mumei

    So long as we agree that it is a subset. Characterizing the only virtue of DF to be its arcane UI was what I objected to.

    I would not argue that there are no people out there who play it solely out of elitism. But I wouldn’t call them the target audience.

    I also doubt if a polished UI and fancy graphics would make it all that much more popular. It is at heart a game about micromanagement, something all the popular genres have been dropping at the wayside.

  • http://twitter.com/D_0ne D-0ne

    Is it safe to post?

    I just wanted to add that Zynga has literally looked at and then stolen code from “Progress Quest.” Line for line.

    That is all.

  • http://Website locrian


    JuJutsu:


    IainC:

    That was my point too. Or do you think the accountants who run Hollywood have a materially different outlook to Mr Pincus?

    I don’t think accountants in any business have a different outlook. .

    Yea. Accountants are primarily busy with making sure that the books, financial statements and disclosures fit regulation.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if most of these companies kept bookkeepers on staff and used consultants to do most of their accounting. The consultants probably don’t have an outlook on the bottom line, beyond thinking black numbers are better than red.

    These threads often make it sound like there are batteries of mustache twirling monopoly bankers making all the decisions. I’m sure it’s true, but it’s probably the investors, not the accountants, that fit that mold.