Vikings Pillage, Rape, Rap, In Roughly That Order

I still refuse to grind asteroids.

@Vetarnias
Well, I’d hate to betray your expectations, you know?

@Jarnis
Actually, I guess you’ve got me nailed on the “think you can’t play unless you’re maxed out” categorization. Sort of. It just seems to me that EVE Online has an elaborate economic class difference in that new players are perpetually supporting those above them, and those above them can afford the ships to freely gank new players to alleviate the boredom of managing their corporate empires.

@Goodgimp
I think I’m speaking figuratively about the grinding asteroids thing. You will grind something in that game, and product of an asteroid is involved.

Geldon, the exact same thing could be said for *any* MMO out there. If it’s a WoW clone, it’s grinding little gold punctuation marks (which personally I just cannot tolerate any more. I lasted precisely 17 minutes in Aion). If it’s UO, it’s clicking on trees and rocks ad nauseum. If it’s Everquest… uh, yea, I don’t even want to go there.

Yes and no. The grind is there, indeed, but there’s a certain question of the level of cerebral satisfaction brought about from actually performing the actions that make up the grind.

A few games bring this about through a reasonable amount of depth. Some games bring this satisfaction from fast-paced frenetic action that challenges the mind to keep up with them. Many games do neither, and consequently these games don’t get played by me.

Case in point: EVE Online. I’ve played it before. I’m aware that the game does have some sophistication in the dizzying amount of skills and equipment that are available, not to mention all the social engineering that’s involved in building a successful empire (or swindling other players out of theirs). However, as far as being an involving game decisions go, it doesn’t have much to speak for it.

@dartwick

Geldon was appearently was unable to enjoy EVE successfully.

Fixed that for you.

@geldonyetich

So you dislike any game that has a grind?

You define the grind as “has something within the game you can advance (e.g. experience/levels, skill points)” then no.

If you define the grind as “what happens when you play a game that forces you to commit to repetitive activities long after you’ve mastered (and bored) them in order to reach the part of the game you think you want to play” then yes.

If your problem with EVE was that you dont like costly PVP, or that you hate EVEs combat mechanics or that you like avatar based games or that you require seriously deep, well scripted adventures then I would say – yes its not for you. Which is cool.

Exept for the avatar-based game requirement, I’d say this is accurate enough.

It’s just wrong to say that “I failed to play” EVE on the grounds that failing to play would suggest I didn’t know how to play it. On the contrary, I understood how to play it quite well. Sure, there was a little bit of a learning curve involved, but I wasn’t afraid to dig into a Wiki to pick up what I needed to know.

I didn’t see any long term appeal for me due to the asforementioned costly PvP, unsatisfying (fairly shallow unless you’re trying to operate in formation with many other players) combat mechanics, protracted grind, and so on.

I would go so far as to agree with you when you say I “didn’t experience much” of EVE Online. Sure, if you don’t venture out into 0.0 space, you’ve not seen a whole lot of the game universe. However, the reason why I didn’t bother is that I didn’t see anything there to interest me. One could just as easily say that EVE Online failed to meet my tastes.

You know what would be a really cool EVE Online experience for me is if I had the opportunity to program and run multiple ships at once. I don’t think the individual ship experience has enough to interest me in that game. However, with multiple ships zipping around performing my whims (a bit like Egosoft’s X series) that’s a lot more interesting. I’d probably even be willing to humor getting ganked in 0.0 space, on the grounds that making money is fairly hands off.

@Guy
Indeed, but it’s not even that I’m trying to put a RTS/Strategy implementation in the game (though that might be fallout). It’s just that there’s all this dynamic content and nifty economy in place, but my place in it as an individual player is just too small and boring. It’s no wonder so many players like to multibox the game, but I’m not shelling out $30+/mo for that.

It’s a corporate image buff, but not along the lines of making them look like they’re seriously good at their jobs. It’s along the lines of softening their image – they’re goofing around, trying to make sure you know they’re all around fun people. So, next time you have one of their GMs revoke your account for exploiting, don’t look upon them as The Man keeping you down.

@harl
Gee, harl, I sort of better defined what I meant by that in my later posts, and it wasn’t what you’re blathering on about.

Actually, that a little kneejerk. (That’s what I get for putting off breakfast past lunch.) Let me put it this way.

How does it meet your grind criteria?

It’s mostly in the pacing. When the developers try to milk their game mechanic for more than it’s worth by forcing you to do something you’ve already mastered for several hours to get to the next part of their game, it’s a waste of my time.

I wish I could merge these together.

I’ll give the developers this much credit: pacing is tricky. Me, I’m hard to satisfy in a game like EVE Online or World of Warcraft because I’ve already mastered most of the activity before I even started playing the game.

Each MMORPG brings something unique to the table, and once those aspects have been exhausted through practice, what have I got left? The same boring old grind.

If you operate with an understanding that this is what the grind really is – boredom brought about by poor pacing – it is never forgivable.

Why the pacing is tricky for the developers is that I’m not the only player playing. I’m one of the more experienced players they’re going to run across. If they could entice in average_Blizzard_fanboy_who_never_played_an_mmorpg_before_in_their_life_5931031 then they will have somebody who is very easy to entertain. I’m not.

Thus, these days, I spend a lot of time creating. For all the games there are being created today, there’s far too few of it that is actually new and entertaining.

No you don’t explain it. You mention “the grind.” I don’t understand what grind you are talking about. There are grinds in that game, mining and missions, but they are all optional. What grind are you talking about?

Do I need to point out the individual sentences to you where I implicitly describe the grind? Are you really that bad at reading?

I’d try again, but at this point I’m thinking if you didn’t pick it up the first 2 times, you’ll probably not pick it up on the third.

PvP is only costly if you use the expensive uninsurable ships. If you use standard ships PvP is effectivly free. One of the major complaints in the game is that ships are too cheap and can be used to suicide gank people in the policed areas of space.

PvP is viable with newb characters. PvP can’t meet your grind criteria as it’s never repeditive.

You’re mostly talking to yourself here. Yes, we all acknowledge these flaws.

You claim PvP has no strategy but admit you only played for a bit. There’s a strong correlation here. PvP is not simple.

There’s a difference between finding involvement in a game to be insufficient to be a satisfying gameplay experience and finding there to be no strategy at all.

The only admission I see here is you can’t be bothered to take the time to read and get hot and bothered over what you think you saw.

I hear the avatar complaint a lot. I don’t understand it but I still pay to play MUDs because I think their environments are richer. In the AAA games you’re just killing different color pixel each level, oh these goblins had a red tint!

I actually specifically mentioned the avatar complaint is not one of mine.

Sorry.

It’s just that, with most people who might appear to be slamming EVE Online, or any game, you might expect that person just wants to get into a pissing match with you so you’ll feel free to go back and forth with that person trying to convince them of something. (The number of times somebody actually is convinced of anything on the Internet is abysmally low.)

With me, I don’t slam games to get in pissing matches. I merely mention I don’t happen to enjoy them. If you want to understand why I don’t enjoy the game, I’m going to ask you to do something terrible. I’m going to ask you to think.

Thus, when I describe the grind, I described not specific activities in the game because this would be pointless. I described the very grind phenomenon and expected you to take the time to think and come to an understanding of why the core aspect of EVE Online qualify.

I’m not going going to go as far as good riddance. Sure, both you and I can point out a number of things wrong with the game (if Yahtzee didn’t already do it for us in a far more entertaining manner), but the bottom line is if you enjoy the game, that’s fine by me, but leave me out of it, thanks. Been there, done that, found the creativity of their approach drowned by inability to see it through with a satisfying gameplay mechanic, thanks anyway.

Ergo, now as elaborated:

[While CCP looks like a funloving group of vikings,] I still refuse to grind asteroids.

Speaking of which: We really need a new Darkfall update.

Maybe. But then, there’s only so much you can say about a bird hitting a window.