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	<title>Comments on: Busy, But Not Too Busy To Be Bitchy About Games</title>
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	<description>Random Comments About Games and Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34542</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34542</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;At the same time, I’m not sure the F2P model will be successful in this case, as it has been implemented on an existing game rather than built into it from the start. So far, to be honest, I have seen no compelling argument to spend money on it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That&#039;s true.  But then, the Free2Play business model isn&#039;t about getting you or me to spend any money on the game.  It&#039;s about seeing if they can entice in 100x more players to try it, because it&#039;s free.  If just 1 out of 100 players decide to subscribe to the game, they&#039;re making as much money as if they were a regular subscription game.

Does making a game F2P really entice in that many more players?  Maybe.  Free Realms passed the 5 million mark just a few months after it&#039;s release -- granted, they had television commercials going for them.  Maple Story has about four times the players as World of Warcraft, and I wouldn&#039;t say it&#039;s a superior game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>At the same time, I’m not sure the F2P model will be successful in this case, as it has been implemented on an existing game rather than built into it from the start. So far, to be honest, I have seen no compelling argument to spend money on it.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s true.  But then, the Free2Play business model isn&#8217;t about getting you or me to spend any money on the game.  It&#8217;s about seeing if they can entice in 100x more players to try it, because it&#8217;s free.  If just 1 out of 100 players decide to subscribe to the game, they&#8217;re making as much money as if they were a regular subscription game.</p>
<p>Does making a game F2P really entice in that many more players?  Maybe.  Free Realms passed the 5 million mark just a few months after it&#8217;s release &#8212; granted, they had television commercials going for them.  Maple Story has about four times the players as World of Warcraft, and I wouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s a superior game.</p>
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		<title>By: Vetarnias</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34479</link>
		<dc:creator>Vetarnias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34479</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Free 2 Play model really suits it, doesn’t it? DDO had more in common with Guild Wars than EverQuest. The gameplay wasn’t bad, but the “massive” wasn’t there.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

At the same time, I&#039;m not sure the F2P model will be successful in this case, as it has been implemented on an existing game rather than built into it from the start.  So far, to be honest, I have seen no compelling argument to spend money on it.

Quite a coincidence that this has been brought up just before Mr. Jennings posted news of Dungeon Runners&#039; closure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Free 2 Play model really suits it, doesn’t it? DDO had more in common with Guild Wars than EverQuest. The gameplay wasn’t bad, but the “massive” wasn’t there.</p></blockquote>
<p>At the same time, I&#8217;m not sure the F2P model will be successful in this case, as it has been implemented on an existing game rather than built into it from the start.  So far, to be honest, I have seen no compelling argument to spend money on it.</p>
<p>Quite a coincidence that this has been brought up just before Mr. Jennings posted news of Dungeon Runners&#8217; closure.</p>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34466</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34466</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;On the subject of WoW, I’m increasingly thinking that what bothered me so much about that game was not so much that it aimed at the casual market, but instead that it turned every casual aspect of the game into a repetitious treadmill to achieve some further aim down the road. In other words, you had to do that raid, even though you had run through it a dozen times. Extremely successful as a business model, but not so much as an MMO.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It was a clever bait and switch, really.  When a player first enters World of Warcraft, they&#039;re given a very casual game.  The first 40 or so levels are just this.  However, such a game is doomed - it&#039;s far too shallow, it won&#039;t be a long-lasting success.  

World of Warcraft then undergoes a sudden transformation to &lt;i&gt;the same old EverQuest inspired &lt;b&gt;grind&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; (with ample DAOC RvR offerings) after level 40 or so because they&#039;ve set the hook.  The casual-friendliness as just the bait.

&lt;blockquote&gt;On the other hand, I’m playing Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online these days, now that it has gone semi-free, and I can see why it was mostly a failure as an MMO. The over-instancing of everything, and a rather bland game world where even the most epic quest lines, in the larger scheme of things, seem to have barely more importance than brushing your teeth. It never felt *massive* in any way. However, to quote a friend also playing it, it was the purest multiplayer experience he had seen in a long time, and at that level, the game is a success. Certainly the most fun I’ve obtained from any MMO in over a year.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The Free 2 Play model really suits it, doesn&#039;t it?  DDO had more in common with Guild Wars than EverQuest.  The gameplay wasn&#039;t bad, but the &quot;massive&quot; wasn&#039;t there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>On the subject of WoW, I’m increasingly thinking that what bothered me so much about that game was not so much that it aimed at the casual market, but instead that it turned every casual aspect of the game into a repetitious treadmill to achieve some further aim down the road. In other words, you had to do that raid, even though you had run through it a dozen times. Extremely successful as a business model, but not so much as an MMO.</p></blockquote>
<p>It was a clever bait and switch, really.  When a player first enters World of Warcraft, they&#8217;re given a very casual game.  The first 40 or so levels are just this.  However, such a game is doomed &#8211; it&#8217;s far too shallow, it won&#8217;t be a long-lasting success.  </p>
<p>World of Warcraft then undergoes a sudden transformation to <i>the same old EverQuest inspired <b>grind</b></i> (with ample DAOC RvR offerings) after level 40 or so because they&#8217;ve set the hook.  The casual-friendliness as just the bait.</p>
<blockquote><p>On the other hand, I’m playing Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online these days, now that it has gone semi-free, and I can see why it was mostly a failure as an MMO. The over-instancing of everything, and a rather bland game world where even the most epic quest lines, in the larger scheme of things, seem to have barely more importance than brushing your teeth. It never felt *massive* in any way. However, to quote a friend also playing it, it was the purest multiplayer experience he had seen in a long time, and at that level, the game is a success. Certainly the most fun I’ve obtained from any MMO in over a year.</p></blockquote>
<p>The Free 2 Play model really suits it, doesn&#8217;t it?  DDO had more in common with Guild Wars than EverQuest.  The gameplay wasn&#8217;t bad, but the &#8220;massive&#8221; wasn&#8217;t there.</p>
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		<title>By: Vetarnias</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34462</link>
		<dc:creator>Vetarnias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34462</guid>
		<description>On the subject of WoW, I&#039;m increasingly thinking that what bothered me so much about that game was not so much that it aimed at the casual market, but instead that it turned every casual aspect of the game into a repetitious treadmill to achieve some further aim down the road.  In other words, you &lt;i&gt;had&lt;/i&gt; to do that raid, even though you had run through it a dozen times.  Extremely successful as a business model, but not so much as an MMO.

On the other hand, I&#039;m playing Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online these days, now that it has gone semi-free, and I can see why it was mostly a failure as an MMO.  The over-instancing of everything, and a rather bland game world where even the most epic quest lines, in the larger scheme of things, seem to have barely more importance than brushing your teeth. It never felt *massive* in any way. However, to quote a friend also playing it, it was the purest multiplayer experience he had seen in a long time, and at that level, the game is a success.  Certainly the most fun I&#039;ve obtained from any MMO in over a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of WoW, I&#8217;m increasingly thinking that what bothered me so much about that game was not so much that it aimed at the casual market, but instead that it turned every casual aspect of the game into a repetitious treadmill to achieve some further aim down the road.  In other words, you <i>had</i> to do that raid, even though you had run through it a dozen times.  Extremely successful as a business model, but not so much as an MMO.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I&#8217;m playing Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online these days, now that it has gone semi-free, and I can see why it was mostly a failure as an MMO.  The over-instancing of everything, and a rather bland game world where even the most epic quest lines, in the larger scheme of things, seem to have barely more importance than brushing your teeth. It never felt *massive* in any way. However, to quote a friend also playing it, it was the purest multiplayer experience he had seen in a long time, and at that level, the game is a success.  Certainly the most fun I&#8217;ve obtained from any MMO in over a year.</p>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34461</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34461</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say it&#039;s less a matter of letting them go and more a matter of a faulty trap.  A WoW player who wants to play WoW will be caught by WoW, not a game that wants to be WoW. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s less a matter of letting them go and more a matter of a faulty trap.  A WoW player who wants to play WoW will be caught by WoW, not a game that wants to be WoW. <img src='http://brokentoys.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: UnSub</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34455</link>
		<dc:creator>UnSub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34455</guid>
		<description>@geldonyetich: WAR.

But then it let them go. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@geldonyetich: WAR.</p>
<p>But then it let them go. <img src='http://brokentoys.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34406</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34406</guid>
		<description>In an MMORPG genre as glutted as this, I expect them all to be niche.  They just need to recognize it instead of gutting the appeal of their niche in hopes of pleasing everyone.  Name one non-F2P World of Warcraft clone that captured even a tenth of WoW&#039;s subscribers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In an MMORPG genre as glutted as this, I expect them all to be niche.  They just need to recognize it instead of gutting the appeal of their niche in hopes of pleasing everyone.  Name one non-F2P World of Warcraft clone that captured even a tenth of WoW&#8217;s subscribers.</p>
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		<title>By: JuJutsu</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34405</link>
		<dc:creator>JuJutsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34405</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I would argue that a game in which the players need learn nothing to play is begging to be boring and derivative. If that’s what the player’s want, there’s plenty of clones available to service them. 

Let there be at least one game that isn’t so very mired on the beaten path to be completely intuitive, and any who come there to demand it conform to simply be told to leave for the ample offerings already available to them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No problem. Just expect it to be a nice niche game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I would argue that a game in which the players need learn nothing to play is begging to be boring and derivative. If that’s what the player’s want, there’s plenty of clones available to service them. </p>
<p>Let there be at least one game that isn’t so very mired on the beaten path to be completely intuitive, and any who come there to demand it conform to simply be told to leave for the ample offerings already available to them.</p></blockquote>
<p>No problem. Just expect it to be a nice niche game.</p>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34404</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34404</guid>
		<description>I need to ease off on my replies a bit, but I thought this needed to be put on the table.
&lt;blockquote&gt;(The Powerhouse does need a basement level with one room with mobs who fight back, and another empty one for duels, the first room much more than the second, I’ll strongly agree there.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I don&#039;t now about a basement level, but according to the recent developer Q&amp;A session, they are now in the process of adding actual mobs that fight back to the Powerhouse, as well as places where people can duel without interrupting other players.  (Good luck enforcing that.)

Good summary &lt;a href=&quot;http://bulletpointsblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/random-shots-champions-online-dev-chat.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; -- assuming this doesn&#039;t trip the spam filter to post it thusly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I need to ease off on my replies a bit, but I thought this needed to be put on the table.</p>
<blockquote><p>(The Powerhouse does need a basement level with one room with mobs who fight back, and another empty one for duels, the first room much more than the second, I’ll strongly agree there.)</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t now about a basement level, but according to the recent developer Q&amp;A session, they are now in the process of adding actual mobs that fight back to the Powerhouse, as well as places where people can duel without interrupting other players.  (Good luck enforcing that.)</p>
<p>Good summary <a href="http://bulletpointsblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/random-shots-champions-online-dev-chat.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> &#8212; assuming this doesn&#8217;t trip the spam filter to post it thusly.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter S.</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/09/09/busy-but-not-too-busy-to-be-bitchy-about-games/comment-page-2/#comment-34403</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/?p=4050#comment-34403</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s blockquote instead of quote and inequality signs instead of brackets.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ahh, so more &lt;i&gt;traditional&lt;/i&gt; tag formats.  I can live with that. :)

On topic, since WoW keeps coming up, does anyone remember just how bad WoW&#039;s talent trees were on launch, particularly compared to what they were two years in?  I played a feral Druid, myself.  You&#039;d have a hard time convincing me that CO&#039;s launch is somehow worse than typical for the genre.

If anything, I&#039;d call the speed of CO&#039;s responsiveness frightening.  People are certainly freaked out by it, right?

(The Powerhouse does need a basement level with one room with mobs who fight back, and another empty one for duels, the first room much more than the second, I&#039;ll strongly agree there.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It’s blockquote instead of quote and inequality signs instead of brackets.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ahh, so more <i>traditional</i> tag formats.  I can live with that. <img src='http://brokentoys.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>On topic, since WoW keeps coming up, does anyone remember just how bad WoW&#8217;s talent trees were on launch, particularly compared to what they were two years in?  I played a feral Druid, myself.  You&#8217;d have a hard time convincing me that CO&#8217;s launch is somehow worse than typical for the genre.</p>
<p>If anything, I&#8217;d call the speed of CO&#8217;s responsiveness frightening.  People are certainly freaked out by it, right?</p>
<p>(The Powerhouse does need a basement level with one room with mobs who fight back, and another empty one for duels, the first room much more than the second, I&#8217;ll strongly agree there.)</p>
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