Broken
Toys
Random comments about
games and tractors
Life In Wartime
At Christmas, the company provided a catered meal for the CSRs who had to monitor an in-game event and work through the holiday. I don’t know if our bosses just ordered what they usually did, but the surplus of food made it seem like our department’s slow decline had gone unnoticed. There was enough food for an army, but only a handful of us were left. For weeks afterward, the break room fridge overflowed with unopened trays of leftover corn. It felt like an offering left to appease the layoff god. Maybe this delicious corn would sate his mighty hunger.
| Print article |
about 1 year ago
The bosses knew that if there’s anything CSR should never be short on, it was corniness.
It’s always sad to see layoffs – familiar friends being shown the door.
Interesting how much of it he’s pinning on The Lich King.
about 1 year ago
@geldonyetich: I remember hearing a lot of people, when WAR first came out, say “eh, it’ll tide me over until WotLK.” Then, when said WoW expansion came out, I heard from a few people (who were still playing WAR) that they just didn’t see as many people out and about in the world.
So yeah, I can believe that releasing their game near WotLK hurt.
about 1 year ago
@Matthew: I beta tested Wrath, and had already cleared through all of the content in the process of getting the new Death Knight class to level 80. As a result, I was in no hurry to do the same thing over again, and my money really was 100% Mythic’s to lose. Then I actually played the game, and I would have reached the same conclusion (canceled after the included month) even if there hadn’t been a WoW expansion anywhere on the horizon.
In the end, the game needed more time, and could not have it due to the economic era in which it arrived. If you don’t want to be used as a placeholder for a major release two months down the road, you simply can’t launch with 3-6 months of work to get your game up to par and expect that people will sit around and wait. The sad part is that many people who had no responsibility for the situation, such as this former CSR, are the ones who end up suffering the most when it comes crashing down.
about 1 year ago
Oddly enough, Warhammer is the only MMO I’ve quit that I actually seriously miss on occasion.
Well, okay, I miss character creation in City of Heroes, and Super Jump, but that’s it. The occasional free weekends they have are enough to both remind me why I enjoy the game AND remind me why I quit it. Age of Conan almost got me back with the promise of a free high level character, but when it turned out I’d have to earn a different character to that point to get it, it went back in the dustbin. (Which is a shame, there were a few things that AoC did quite right.)
about 1 year ago
Is it normal to have such “enthusiastic” workers? To me, it just comes off as creepy as fuck. Maybe the writer was just embellishing, but that would explain the game’s shortcomings. If you’re so busy being convinced you’re working on the best shit ever, you may not be able to see the forest for the trees.
about 1 year ago
Seems like right about now would be a hell of a time to release a new MMO. It will be interesting to see how Aion’s performance compares to WAR’s, with WoW at low-tide for the moment.
about 1 year ago
@Freakazoid:
That sounded normal to me for a group of people that have very similar backgrounds and close to the same interests, placed into an environment where they did a support job that did not take their full attention and they could chat during that timeframe. It is more that you make friends while doing the work, which makes the work much better – when I held a job at the AOL online tech support some 10 years ago, it was much the same situation. Rose colored glasses enter into it as well, as you remember the fun you had more then you remember hating the job.
about 1 year ago
I dunno – Aion is launching around the same time Blizzard is announcing a new expansion and possibly a new mmo. Its going to be another year where if you don’t have a solid release you will fail.
about 1 year ago
I think watching how Aion sells will be interesting indeed. It is currently gaining hype around the blogosphere but the hype is nowhere near as high as WAR was. And while Blizzard will most likely be announcing their next expansion at Blizzcon in October, Aion is releasing in September and any upcoming WoW xpac will be 6-9 months down the road at minimum.
about 1 year ago
I LOL’d at this:
“Our game had been beaten into submission by gold farmers, cheaters and WoW’s new expansion.”
Uh……….. yeah. That’s why Warhammer failed…….
=> Not the lack of a 3rd realm.
=> Not the insane excess of crowd control.
=> Not the gruesome lack of class balance.
=> Not the horrible population imbalance.
=> Not horrible server performance that made large scale battles impossible, crash-happy affairs.
I am sorry this guy lost his job, but I was really hoping for something more insightful from an “insider.” Where’s some scuttlebutt as to why the above happened? Why did they focus on adding new content instead of fixing class and population balance? That’s what I’d love to hear.
Blaming WAR’s failure on gold farmers? Hahahahaha. No.
about 1 year ago
@Freakazoid:
That’s the first time I’ve ever heard enthusiastic workers being construed as a BAD thing. Especially when you’re the Customer Service department overseeing the populace and making sure they’re having fun, you know?
about 1 year ago
@Freak
He admitted to being a bit of a fanboi, I’m not sure I would be any less enthusiastic to “get in the industry”, even if it was at hell on EArth.
Or, EA puts something in the water.
about 1 year ago
Oh come on, WAR first and most notoriely fail was imply that they would beat WoW into submission.
All the game defects could have been tanking longer if they wouldnt imply in every single chance that their game was better. I mean, they do layoffs and then they do that e-peen contest of buying publicity vs. Blizzard??
Im sorry for him and all the guys that got fired, but there its the typical failures that we all are tired of watching, the usual overhype, not listening to the testers when they said “Dude, this isnt ready” (i mean it would have been such a tragedy launching in March-April with even a little of all the money that went to publicity??).
An then we got their original failures, creating Trials of Atlantis AGAIN despite the fact that the original version almost sunk DAOC, creating a game that demands waaaay to much to your computer and your connection, creating a game when it was ABSOLUTELY NECESARY that all the servers have THE EXACT SAME population in both sides(related to the TOA fail) and of course, creating a game where many classes just dont cut it in the “end game”.
I could say that they didnt learned jack since ToA, but they did, the only problem it that all the people that could have told them about the fail were fired.
To Monken and all the guys that were fired in that mess: I am sorry for that, I cannot imagine what it feels being in the wrong end of a recession, but you need to realize that you were in the Titanic.
If anything, the captain of the ship should have dodged the Lich King iceberg(heh) instead of driving at full speed into colission course.
about 1 year ago
Warthammer’s biggest problem is that is that the end game just isn’t fun. It is either feast or famine, zerg or nothing, and if the zergs meet (assuming is actually enough people on to have one on each side) its a mess. I don’t think the missing cities will ever show up in the game, there isn’t the population to even support it and it would hose up the end game even more that it is now. It is a shame, there were some good ideas, just not enough to make it fun. Land of the dead? Yup, sure is. Not even a good adaptation (or rip-off) of DF.
about 1 year ago
As others have pointed out the end game is just not fun at all. The lag, game breaking bugs, the game engine, realm and class balance, only 2 realms, boring pve, drastically over using a good idea in public quest, not using another great idea enough tomb of knowledge. I can go on, you could write a book on things Mythic did wrong with WAR.
*
As to Aion it is getting a lot of community driven hype and it is releasing in NA at the perfect time. However Aion is already a big hit in Asia, it has I think close to 4 million subs. WAR has failed in every international market it has released. So you really cannot compare one to the other. One epic fail, one already big success by any measure you want to use. Aion also has Lani Blazier as one of the front people for Aion in NA, beats the hell out of listening to the random musings of the idiot that EA allows to speak in public on behalf of WAR.
*
It will be interesting to see if a Korean MMO can be a big hit in NA. After playing the first few beta’s the game play is fun all be it nothing outside of the box, the game works and lag/bugs minimal, after WAR and Conan that alone will make it a short term success. Long term it has potential to hook people if they enjoy and DAOCish/L2 end game.
about 1 year ago
<blockquote.I LOL’d at this:
“Our game had been beaten into submission by gold farmers, cheaters and WoW’s new expansion.”
Uh……….. yeah. That’s why Warhammer failed…….
Actually, I think what that particular quote is mostly referring to the things that the lack of customer service resulting from layoffs was now unable to combat effectively.
about 1 year ago
Epic fail. Trying again:
Actually, I think what that particular quote is mostly referring to the things that the lack of customer service resulting from layoffs was now unable to combat effectively.
about 1 year ago
geldonyetich, I read your reply 5 times and I still can’t understand it.
The way you wrote it says this:
* There have been layoffs.
* There are less people doing customer service.
* As a result, gold farmers, cheaters, and WoW’s expansion are *NOW* beating WAR into submission.
The problem is, WAR’s expansion came long before the layoffs, gold farmers have never been a problem in WAR, and cheaters (using Warbuddy or whatever) are a very recent problem.
So blaming WAR’s failure on pure external causes is very disingenuous. They killed their own game through some really bad decisions, and thus the real question is HOW DID THOSE DECISIONS GET MADE?
about 1 year ago
Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but I think WAR could have really knocked it out of the park if it had released around March/April of this year. People who have not played WoW didn’t get a chance to see the first really big cracks in Blizzard’s armor- the expansion’s content was near-exhausted by Christmas, most casual guilds were crushing the same end-game content that “uber” guilds were, PvP was an absolute disaster with everyone dying in 20 seconds or much less… I actually ended up quitting in April because the game became so boring and frustrating (this is after beta-testing WoW for 8 months before initial release, and then playing for another 4 years.)
WAR could have taken that extra six months, really polished their PvE content, saw what WoW was doing wrong and capitalized during a major stretch of nothing coming out of Blizzard. Instead, it was rushed to market… and I think everyone understands now that first impressions are everything in this industry. I really think that the reason WoW is such a force is that it’s probably the only MMORPG to ever come out that didn’t disappoint many people within the first month. Every other MMORPG’s flaws are very obvious in almost no time, word travels, and the ship is sunk.
about 1 year ago
Regarding the issue of launching WAR just before WotLK, Blizzard and Mythic were playing chicken with release dates trying to see who would flinch first. When WAR’s release date was finalised, WotLK still hadn’t announced a firm shipping date – oddly enough that came very shortly after the Mythic announcement. There was never any doubt that launching too close to Wrath would have been a bad idea but after the game had been delayed for so long already and had so many cancelled release dates, there comes a time when it’s just not possible to keep holding back indefinitely – you just have to put your hand on the table and hope that the river is kind to you.
As regards the tone of the article itself, it echoes what we saw at GOA during the same period. We had to hire a whole lot more CSRs just before Open Beta because many of the ones we’d hired prior to that had been promoted to better jobs internally. Morale was very high, vast amounts of money were being thrown at the project and there was a real feeling that we were going to be part of something truly remarkable.
about 1 year ago
If it helps IainC, you WERE part of something remarkable.
… just not in a good way.
about 1 year ago
Extremely unsatisfying article that reads more like a generic boo-hoo story then anything substantial or revealing.
about 1 year ago
“Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but I think WAR could have really knocked it out of the park if it had released around March/April of this year. People who have not played WoW didn’t get a chance to see the first really big cracks in Blizzard’s armor- the expansion’s content was near-exhausted by Christmas”
Agreed very much.
@IainC: This is what I predicted before last fall. It was obvious that (editorial huzzahs notwithstanding) Lich King was going to suck by the standards of longtime WoW players. Probably even more than Burning Crusade, since even more of the original Blizzard team had by then moved on to Starcraft and Diablo.
For WAR, then, it was vital that they be positioned positively in players’ minds when players blew through all the WotLK content as fast or faster than they did Burning Crusade. They could have accomplished this in 2 ways: 1) by winning the game of chicken and absolutely refusing to send the game to print before Lich King released 2) by insisting that their game actually be fun and worthy of being released in the Year of Our Lord 2008 or 2009.
They needed at least 1 of those 2. They could have accomplished both by waiting. They did neither.
about 1 year ago
This gentleman obviously isn’t in a position to explain to the world at large why WAR turned out the way that it did, and he doesn’t pretend to be.
The article is a personal tale and doesn’t purport to be anything other than what it is, and I don’t think it merits him being raked the way many of the comments appear to.
The author clearly just wants to share the story of how the events around him affected both he and others. It doesn’t have to be breaking news to merit being posted.
If this fellow who was obviously hoping for more wants an outlet to express his thoughts on it, more power to him.
For one, I’m plain sorry that he and others had to go through that experience, and wish them luck in the future.
about 1 year ago
Actually, what I’m saying is that this is the way the writer of the article wrote it.
You don’t have to agree with it, just try not to misinterpret him.
about 1 year ago
At least Mythic managed to copy WoW’s UI while making it worse.
There should be some kind of medal for that.
The morale at GOA was so high that they managed to keep out most of the people out of the open beta.
There should be some kind of medal for that too.
CSR- and GM-stuff are the people who usually percept “their” game in the most wrong way possible. Some people on here assumed already that Mythic didn’t even really know what players loved about DAoC.
Warhammer failed in so many ways, it seems to me like there was no sane person on the design team with power.
about 1 year ago
I was one who was not really ever very excited while playing Warhammer; it being a part of the EA megamachine was a bit of a turn off from the start but I gave it a chance. My first day of playing (right at launch) was getting plagued with a seriously detrimental FPS issue where even on spectacular hardware the game stuttered so badly it was unbearable. I got better FPS using a laptop with shitty integrated graphics. The problem was never fixed during the first month I played it and support alternated from pretending there was nothing wrong to offering stupid advice about defragging your harddrive. There was an enormous thread about it on one of the third party forums which I happened to look up the other day to see people still complaining about the problem. In the end it took me buying another computer for things to get better and even still the game doesn’t run anywhere close to WoW, and both machines were total gaming monsters.
Then the game itself is just really so much WoW with a different UI that going back and forth between the two feels like I’m essentially playing the same game with a different class. There’s not enough differentiation between them that makes it worth maintaining a subscription to me. I restarted a couple weeks ago to give it a try post bugfixes and big content patches and there’s really no big differences. The game (and this is sadly the case for pretty much all the MMOGs post-WoW) just doesn’t divide itself from WoW enough to be compelling to me. Fancy PvP additions and UI tweaks aside, every time I play it I feel like I could be doing the same thing in WoW where at least I’d be leveling my character.
about 1 year ago
Polish could not have saved WAR.
-The setting was persistently too dark oppressive to keep most people long term.
-The players who wanted to play the end game felt the leveling was slow.
-The leveling process(pve and pvp) felt very “paint by number.”
about 1 year ago
To quote a former veteran DAoC player: “Mythic have lurched from one disaster to another since the TOA release in DAOC, they are a joke, end of.”
This one is good: http://gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20090625
about 1 year ago
They were guaranteed to have massive losses due to lich king. I mean there were guilds with names like we give it 2 months. If they believed they would have anything other than disastrous retention in months 1-2 they were smoking crack. The fact they had too many servers + the mass exodus probably encouraged a lot of other players to leave the ghost town instead of putting up with some stuff. If they could have staved off some of those non-wotlk losses they may have done better with retention for awhile longer but ultimately the bottom will fall out because no one seemed to enjoy the endgame. They were too similar to WoW and if the game had been pushed back 6 months or more and tried to develop its own unique options to keep some type of playerbase around besides wow and warhammer fans they might have done something.
In terms of fun though I do want to say something. Bright wizard was fun in months 1-2 because I played casually and it was easy to own people in T1-T3 scenarios. Hell I forget the name but I remember one T2 match the other team had the relic and we were down over 1200 points. I blew up 2 healers and the tank at max combustion stole the relic and actually got heals. I held onto the relic blowing people up for the next 5 minutes and we ended up winning. Of course that only shows how things were unbalanced and how stupid some people play the game. At any rate after month 2 I canceled like everyone else and went back to the real game wotlk. For me Warhammer was just something to relieve boredom.
about 1 year ago
I wouldn’t expect the cook to know why the ship sunk, but he can still have an interesting story to tell about the sinking. Good read, from an interesting perspective.
about 1 year ago
Agree with Baroo. It’s easy to complicate the delicate reasons behind a game’s crash, but at the end of the day it just boils down to “Would I be having more fun playing WoW?” If the sum of the new game’s problems (technical issues and bugs, lack of content, polish, gameplay design mistakes) are greater than the fun I have there, then it just stands to reason that I would go back to a game I know I enjoy. Even WoW clones fail because they just aren’t as fun as the original.
about 1 year ago
Excuse me while I over simplify the shit out of this.
1. War Hammer online failed because it was “essentially” broken on several levels of game design.
2. World of War Craft succeeds because it isn’t broken on most levels of game design.
As far as the CSR spillage… Grain of salt.
about 1 year ago
Scott Hartsman: “I don’t think it merits him being raked the way many of the comments appear to.”
Sorry Scott, but he does deserve to be raked for that absurd attempt to place blame for WAR’s failure on “gold farmers, cheaters, and WotLK.”
That was just a ridiculous statement.
Furthermore, there’s almost no way a guy worked at the place as long as he did, during the time that he did, and not hear anything interesting about the actual design. The fact that he did not spill ANYTHING interesting about various dev. decisions is really disappointing. The article was just him lamenting his lost job and being sad about the disappearing perks and goofing off fun as people disappeared. I understand why he’d be sad about that, and I feel for him, but it doesn’t make for an interesting 4 page article.
The article starts off as if there is going to be some interesting insights, and in the end there is nothing there. He hypes it up and then delivers nothing.
Hmmm. Maybe he did learn something from working at EA/Mythic.
about 1 year ago
@Muckbeast
Well he may have not been privy to the inside details of design. I have a friend at Blizzard (who is a developer on Starcraft) who says there are place’s he’s not allowed to go inside the building.
I know if I were to talk about the short-comings of my former employer (Adobe) and reveal all kinds of inner secrets they’d probably sent me a cease and desist.
about 1 year ago
You really think low-level CSRs are invited to design meetings?
Admittedly, they probably should be, but they aren’t.
about 1 year ago
On second thought, it actually makes quite a lot of sense that Lich King would impact them quite severely. Warhammer Online was largely molded around the idea of being a World of Warcraft clone that fished in World of Warcraft players… but WoW was not so very out of its prime as to not reel in the vast majority of its players by simply releasing an expansion.
It would have helped Warhammer Online’s case if it was significantly better than World of Warcraft. They had Public Quests, Scenario PvP from anywhere, robust Realm Vs Realm, and a relatively novel class balance, but once you’ve cashed in those chips, it was a modest sum at best. The core gameplay is always the thing, and WAR had imitated WoW to enough of an extent that it just wasn’t novel enough for a player to see the point of transitioning to.
Deep down, I want to blame EA. I’m not sure that’s fair – they’ve been trying to reform since the days they would put Ultima Online 2 on the chopping block, twice. However, I can’t help but think a great deal of corporate expectation is what pushed WAR to be such a blazen WoW imitator that we were saying, “OMG, guffaw, it’s WoW” when preview gameplay videos were being released.
about 1 year ago
I see alot of corporate meddling in WAR. Two distinct was pretty much pushing warhammer into a wow-shaped bukket. The original design was for the hardcore, but the warhammer fanbase is, well, hardcore. the new game was for ‘everyone’ and by everyone i mean pwopel who were slightly tired of wow.
shame waste of ip.
about 1 year ago
@Muckbeast
I had exactly the same thoughts when reading the article. The closest you get to an insightful commentary is the segment quoted in this blog entry.
I suspect two things:
The first, that the NDA which Electronic Arts has in place is so exhaustive that the guy couldn’t comment on the weather without an attorney showing up on his doorstep.
The second, that he was just a lowly peon, so expecting him to have anything insightful to say about Warhammer Online is like expecting a Private in Iraq to comment on the entire theatre of operations. And what can he safely say, except “it’s great” or “it sucks”? He probably couldn’t get clearance to say either anyway. And that’s the problem; we read this for the “screw you, sir” moments, always few and far between.
So you get exactly what that italicized paragraph at the beginning describes: Press-release material and lots of I-thinks. Not worth four pages, let alone one.
Still, we have a few interesting points to discuss. The first seems to be this belief that a CSR job is the gateway to game designing, even though I’m pretty sure that people who design games are directly hired from technical schools and universities which teach appropriate courses (especially, I surmise, programming).
That reminds me of a retail place where I worked, where they’d hire people with sales experience, didn’t matter whether it was in shoes or real estate, or any unrelated product, as long as they had experience with sales with commission pay. I, on the other hand, worked in the storeroom, knew every last thing about a large part of the goods in our regular inventory, and had to make sure everything was tidy in the showroom; when the sales personnel were too clueless to figure out what they were selling, they often sought me out, not just on S&H matters (also part of my duties), but on the product itself.
Yet when I asked, not particularly seriously, whether I could transfer to sales, the predictable response was, sorry, but you don’t have sales experience. They’d sooner get a door-to-door cosmetics peddler who knew nothing about our line of products than someone like me, who was knowledgeable about what the company was selling. But hey, at least I was spared having to lie about the genuine quality of what we offered, even though my pay was shit as a result of being overhead.
So yeah, if Monken had continued working at EA (or, I suspect, any other place in the games industry), he would just have earned points as a CSR — meaningless in the larger scheme of things. Maybe they’d have given him a nice little promotion, but I suspect it would have been like the Army; even if he had had job security and spent twenty years there, he’d have ended up as Sergeant Major, perhaps an object of respect among lowly CSR’s, but with every immature loudmouth right out of West Point barking orders at him nonetheless. Experience means nothing, for they always know better.
As for WOTLK and its impact on WAR’s subscription figures, I really can’t say. I played WoW for the first time a few months after WAR, and the games were too identical to make a difference — in which case, the incumbent wins. Still, I remember that when I saw WAR being discussed in the months leading up to its release, those who were most interested in it were people who despised WoW and all that it stood for, and who definitely wouldn’t be standing in line to get a copy of Lich King; so I would think that, at the exact opposite of Monken, WAR’s problem was not a case of losing players who returned to WoW with WOTLK, it was a case of losing players who wanted something else than WoW (perhaps a 2008 version of DAoC, which I never played), and, finding a clone with perhaps somewhat better PvP, said, “no, thank you”.
about 1 year ago
You might find this to be interesting reading.
about 1 year ago
@Vetarnias
I can’t think of a single game designer I’ve met who has any formal training in game design itself – and I’ve met Jeff Kaplan. Also I met a designer on Lineage 2 (Korean guy) who was a former GM.
You’d honestly be surprised what tech support has to offer program designers and developers – after all they hear whats wrong with your game all day long and have plenty of time and incentive to think of ways to fix it.
about 1 year ago
Is there even much of a demand for RMT gold in Warhammer Online?
Seems that the writer chose the easy politically “safe” reasons to blame for the failure of WAR. Hence nothing interesting to see here.
about 1 year ago
I don’t know how much demand there was for RMT, but the RMT purveyors were harassing the players (at least, me) since before day one of WAR’s release. It was the major topic of more than one Mark Jacob rant, and I believe this guy 101% when he says they were beating down the game at all hours.
about 1 year ago
@Angelworks
Perhaps this is because the industry is too young. Film school, for instance, really took off when? The seventies maybe? If I recall, it is now the third stage of the industry, right after the pioneers (who just preferred to tinker with stuff), and the guys who started out in the mailroom. So far, the games parallel is remarkably similar, and what we are discussing is whether Phase 3, the professionals trained through proper channels, has already kicked in.
And even then, those making films don’t run the studios; if they’re successful, they sometimes own production houses but they still need the studios’ money. The suits running the industry are just your usual MBA types.
But I suspect there is a difference between tech support and typical CSR work. I have always understood tech support to be guys who were knowledgeable about coding yet socially functioning (enough, at least, to be able to handle irate customers). CSR work just gets you a list of glitches, which you pass on to the highers-up, and customer service representatives are the your-call-is-important-to-us guys, more in the PR line than technical workers.
If anything, Monken’s profile ( linkedin.com/pub/jeremy-monken/7/486/941 ) indicates some credentials in graphic design, so I have no idea what he majored in; J-school perhaps? But I see nothing in the way of a programming background.
@geldonyetich
I think I may have read that article before. I certainly agree with most of it. I remember the case of someone I knew who once took a technical course that was so tailored to the needs of one employer (who actually paid for it) that it was thoroughly useless for even their competitors. And right after he finished, the company started laying off people; they eventually rehired, but I can’t recall whether the guy ever ended up working at the place in question. So I would never go for a narrow course of study that ends up restricting me.
But the opposite — too vague — isn’t better. I’m all for a liberal education, except that it doesn’t seem to be valued in and of itself these days. Either it’s a springboard to an MBA or law school, or it’s a long, windy (and long-winded) road to the academic stratosphere.
And I can certainly see the author’s point: Even if you do get hired, you’ll just be another guy on the assembly line, and it won’t ever get you into the manager’s armchair upstairs. The lesson I get from this article is not even that, to enter the games industry, I should take my time, study broadly and start small, but that I should never even bother entering it. I remember a previous discussion we had, where I compared an early Garriott selling his games out of Ziploc bags, and Yahtzee’s independent games. Garriott was one those pioneers I mentioned above; he was there first, and he helped form the industry (and I’m a bit sad for him that it had to end like it did). A guy like Yahtzee is twenty years too late to hope for this sort of career. He doesn’t seem to be much of an industry insider (besides, he’s in Australia), and if he tried to enter it, he’d probably be kept down because of his lack of experience — not of game design, but of the industry itself.
Sure, you’ll get the occasional indie hotshots who, like for films, will manage to make it to the majors based on projects with z-grade budgets (Robert Rodriguez), even if just to fizzle later on (the Blair Witch guys), and everyone will talk about them for a while, because you need the occasional Horatio Alger story to maintain the status quo. Maybe Yahtzee could end up as an example of that for the games industry. But as much as these people might be the exception that confirms the rule that no-one and nothing can come from outside the industry and immediately make it to the top, they have the unfortunate tendency to inspire thousands of would-be screenwriters or video game designers. Regardless of talent, I certainly hope that those who seek to emulate such successes realize that what they are doing is going for the most part to be a complete waste of time.
(And I’ve never understood people who wrote screenplays instead of stage plays or a novel; likewise those who dream of designing a video game but wouldn’t even give a moment’s thought to trying to put together a board game. One seems a much more realistic objective than the other.)
about 1 year ago
For me, it was “screw the by and large gaming industry, it’s a madhouse producing games for sheeple by sheeple” — but the never ending deluge of clones on the market might have been a biasing factor that pushed this impression.
Personally, I’d say it has more to do with where you look. Look at something like Spiderweb Software or Moonpod.
The gaming environment has changed in that we have these big monolithic gaming companies, but by and large these companies cater to a completely different niche of gamers. Consequently, smaller companies still survive because they go for the niche that the big companies miss.
It’s not that they can’t make it big, either. Look at something like PopCap games. Founded in 2000, pumping out easy but personable casual games, they’re now pushing revenue that rivals (and probably exceeds) that of the giants. Sure, they might have 180 employees, but how many show up in the credits of Peggle? About as many as Garriott and friends on those early Ultima games.
So, the way I see it, it’s not so much that getting a career in gaming is hostile, so much as people’s vision of where to find those careers is in dead-end jobs built around becoming nameless_grunt_392 getting exploited and chucked out the door.
about 1 year ago
WAR failed because they thought they were making the successor to WoW, instead of the Usurper. Instead of really pounding the niche that they had (large scale PvP) they floundered about with PvE content that pales compared to WoW.
From day one, they failed to address imbalance between Chaos and Order and failed to make the game stable during massive PvP battles.
Without stable, relatively even PvP, you have no game, and that’s what they have now. NO GAME.
about 1 year ago
I agree with the “ship’s cook” opinion. I don’t know why some people think everything they read on the Internet should be belligerent investigative Watergate reporting with a touch of tabloid gossip. He’s just telling you a story – and Lum’s linking it – about getting fired from a job he liked. If you don’t like it, go read Kotaku; they’ll make up some accusation laced story for you that will probably involve Killcreek.
As for the game itself, of course WotLK bears some responsibility. The games were direct competitors. It wasn’t for nothing that Blizzard kept their release date under wraps until LK went gold.
As for Gold Farmers, they certainly harassed the **** out of me on par with Stormwind. I’m sure you can see why a CSR would consider them a problem out of proportion to their place in academic discussions of game design. Odd as it sounds, I’d agree and raise him one more: having to drag down of the scrollbar to the bottom of the EULA before hitting “Accept” for several months was a total pain in the ass that did little to improve my mood when logging in.
about 1 year ago
The game failed because the endgame was horrible. The Spells/abilities gained in the last 10 levels were incredibly weak, equipment was broken, class balance was broken, the raid zones (pve and pvp) were broken, realmpoint gain was horrible (1point per kill), keeps had no purpose, etc. etc.
about 1 year ago
@Zur
I’d like to say that’s your opinion, but actually, that’s true enough.
The last 10 levels were mostly morale ability and specialization points – your core abilities were largely gained by 25. The equipment has a largely secondary focus. The class balance was really tricky business – even if it was balanced, it would be perceived as unbalanced because of the gung ho rock/paper/scissors design. Realm point game – being an end game activity – of course would be a monotonous grind. And – I’ve been wanting to get to this one – keeps sure were difficult to hold on to, they’d just zerg it with four times more people than were necessary and move on.
about 1 year ago
You know, I kinda started feeling bad because a guy got layoff and our focus seems to be bitching about WAR.
Then I remembered that he is putting all the blame in gold farmers and WoW, when the fact its that the last ten levels of that game SUCKED.
Mythic just wanted to go at full speed against WoW and it got crushed. And gold farmers arent too much of a big deal when theres few things that you buy with money.
Its hard feeling bad for a guy with desilusions.
about 1 year ago
“Its hard feeling bad for a guy with desilusions.”
Not really, if this is, as I suspect, a modern-day case of Plato’s cave, usually meaning you are not aware of anything beyond your cubicle. You made that Titanic analogy in a previous post, and I can’t avoid remembering those pumping the water in the sixth compartment, where the gash ended, who thought they were succeeding because the water was receding — until it flowed over from the previous compartment.
So Monken’s reality of Warhammer is what he, as a CSR, could see and what he had to deal with; hence, gold farmers and cheaters. The guys who made his job miserable were to be blamed for the failure of the entire game, and it’s certainly better-looking on your resume that you should blame them instead of the suits upstairs. It’s a cockamamie reasoning, yeah, but it’s the only one he could make on which he could pretend to have knowledge — that and blaming WoW. If he had gone on and pinned it on the developers’ decision to not include a human tank class for Order, we would have seen it as the empty theorycraft it would have been.
What particularly annoys me about this article is that it is being sold as an insider’s look — yes, the author was a journalist, and he has writing credentials, but you don’t read this piece because he was a games reviewer; you read this for no other reason than because he was working for EA Mythic when Warhammer went live. If a former White House butler wrote a book called “Twenty Years of Serving Presidents”, and assuming that somehow it didn’t get vetted to death, would you read it to pick up tips on how to polish silverware?
Sure, I’m sick of “belligerent investigative Watergate reporting with a touch of tabloid gossip”, but when you see an article touted as being written by an insider, you expect something in the way of, well, inside information.
Yet here is the breakdown, page by page, of the Escapist article:
Page 1) Author’s background, with so many details that he should have produced an article thrice as long to match it. He mentions in passing that this job would whet his journalistic curiosity; fair enough.
Page 2) How great he feels being a CSR, what an eclectic bunch they are, and the promotional material looks great. WoW, however, shows up at the bottom of the page to sow the seeds of destruction in paradise.
Page 3) The downturn. And at the bottom of the page, we get that anecdote with the catered meals. It’s the best part of the story. Why? Because it’s the only one, outside of the layoffs themselves, which involves the company in anything other than a public (PR, financial statement, etc.) setting. If the CSR’s had ordered pizza and paid for it themselves, it might have given some flavour as to their work environment, but it would have said nothing about working for EA.
But even that moment with the corn is so superficial, so fleeting, that it leaves the weakest of imprints, and all I’m thinking is that I might as well have been reading Douglas Coupland; wasn’t jPod‘s company based on EA Vancouver? And didn’t Coupland expose the excesses of the “everybody’s-an-aspie-and-it-feels-great” mentality which Monken unintentionally brings up when he mentions “breaks playing Rock Band in the console-filled breakrooms”, “some Simpsons quote” or “a bizarre internet meme” thrown around among people who “all shared the same interests”? Perhaps Monken enjoyed it, but I felt queasy just reading that, and I can picture myself going mad in such a work environment. I’ve never been a snob, but being immersed in such mind-numbing superficiality might well have tipped me over the line.
Page 4) The Protracted Goodbye.
It’s all about how the author feels, in between segments culled from press announcements. Compare the segment Mr. Jennings quoted with the rest of the article; completely different.
Mind you, I’m not blaming Monken for his lackluster article; I’m blaming Electronic Arts for making him unable to discuss any aspect of working at EA, including “internal conversations”. But he could have tried to weave in certain anecdotes about his workplace that tell you something of the company.
Let me try to illustrate what I mean. Remember that retail place I worked for that I mentioned above? Okay, I’ll tell you this much: We were selling home appliances, and the store where I worked was the Siberia of the chain, as we were specializing in discontinued floor models from other stores, items damaged in shipping, and repaired defective stuff (which the client, needless to say, did not know about). So we were selling unpacked appliances, all exhibited as floor models and sold on a case-by-case basis; and as soon as one sold, it had to be replaced by another item from our extensive backstore. One day, the guy in charge of purchasing for the entire chain showed up (remember, we were in Siberia, so we rarely saw him), and started demanding that all refrigerators on the sales floor be arranged according to height. And when one of them sold, and that the replacement was of a different height, we had to move all the others to make sure the height order was respected. In a good evening, we could sell five or six such refrigerators, and our skeleton staff in the back had to take care of all other departments as well. But what did the purchasing guy know, he never came around, and even the store manager told us to disregard his request the moment he walked out of the door.
This, I like to think, is a revealing anecdote. Monken’s article has nothing of the sort. But then, he’s a freelancer, and they’re Electronic Arts.
about 1 year ago
I’m still trying to figure out why gaining RPs felt like a grind in Warhammer and not in DAoC. I mean, capping out your Realm Rank in DAoC would have taken forever, but I don’t recall anyone worrying about it back in the day. In Warhammer, people were definitely out there focussing on ‘levelling up’ their RR. Change in gamer culture, or are the incentives for high RR in Warhammer enough to make that big a difference?
about 1 year ago
With the endgame being based so heavily around tiers of gear, and each higher tier requiring either PvE farming or progressively higher realm ranks to use the PvP versions, it felt like a much more necessary progression than it did in DAoC.
about 1 year ago
In all this talk of Warhammer failing I think we miss something. Don’t get me wrong, Warhammer sank in ways that make the Titanic proud, but I don’t think we talk much about Imperator.
People tend to act like Mythic has done all these great things. Sure, they made a lot of small games in the old days. But when you talk about the big ones, they had a modest hit that they proceeded to screw up in DAoC, then they completely whiffed on Imperator, and we all know the story of Failhammer.
It all begs the question: Did they just get lucky with DAoC? Does anyone at Mythic even know how to make an MMO anymore?
about 1 year ago
@Jeff
Warhammer isn’t a BAD game, but it failed to be the GREAT game it needed to be given the competition it was facing. The subscription numbers aren’t bad for an MMO, even for a triple-A MMO – they just completely fail to meet the expectations that EA and the gaming public had.
Imperator – knowing what we do now, I think Mythic showed that they were smart by parking that one. It just feels too similar to Tabula Rasa and if Mythic had pressed ahead, they probably would have ridden that one down in flames.
The number of studios that have launched more than one successful triple-A MMO can still be counted on the fingers of one hand. Having even one under your belt is a hell of an achievement and requires a lot more than ‘getting lucky’.
about 1 year ago
Tremayne hit it on the head. I know it is very popular with the kids these days to spout the word “fail” all over the place, but if we could all just park the empty internet platitudes for a moment and curb the hyperbole, you will find that Warhammer did not “fail.” It just has not lived up to expectations. Those expectations seem to be growing in the telling too. I actually remember Mythic saying they were NOT aiming at outdoing WoW, which is contradictory to several statements above. They certainly did fail to meet certain criteria for a hit MMO as set down by Mark Jacobs (sub numbers and server merges), which is damning enough without resorting to hyperbole. The endgame certainly has its flaws too, but it is there, it is functional, and I find that I am participating in far more of the “end game” than I ever was able to in WoW, which lived up to one of my personal hopes for WAR.
I actually did the opposite of many, and cancelled WoW because I was having more fun in Warhammer. There are others having fun in WAR too. It’s not a failure to make a fun game, although it certainly failed to capture the minds and imagination of everyone who has played it. As Tremayne says, that is not an easy task. Even Blizzard manages to take all manner of criticism and they have an undeniable financial success. They failed to keep me subscribed, but I would by no means call them a failure because I had more fun in another game, nor would I call them a failure because I personally hate their PvP system, and am tired of the daily quests. Many others enjoy those elements, and more power to them!
I swear, this MMO genre has an amazingly negative and vocal user base that just does not seem to be happy with much of anything for very long…
about 1 year ago
Cliff, Warhammer failed in almost every criteria: financial, design, technical conversion, service. It wasn’t even mentioned on EA’s fiscal year 2009 report.
And no one really cares about WoW. It was never the standard for the many DAoC players who wanted a good successor.
You can moan about the negative and vocal user bases as much as you want, for me it is normal to just have a look at a steaming pile of shit (Warhammer) and to turn away from it as soon as possible.
Warhammer could have 1 subscriber and still be a good game or have 5 millions subscribers and be a bad game, you can check a random MMORPG forum w/o Nazimods and have a look at the Warhammer-section and see how good/bad it is.
about 1 year ago
Epicsquirt: “Steaming pile of shit.” That would be the hyperbole I was talking about… WAR is quite certainly not a steaming pile of shit, unless your definition of shit is vastly different from mine. I actually play the game, so no, I do not need to check random forums to see this kind of hyperbole to tell me about the game. I play it, and I enjoy it. So do others. I also recognize it had problems, and still has problems, and I have certainly noticed that quite a few people have left the game. I also understand why. I know these things by observing them, not by reading about it on some forum. The only thing forums tell me is that there are many people saying they do not like the game, and they say it in very colourful language. I have seen that in quite a few forums, and if I ever go to one, it is just to filter all that nonsense out and get the actual facts, or details I am searching for.
My point was, I see that sort of commenting about WoW too, which is certainly a success. I also see the word “fail” flung at Wrath. I have played Wrath too, and enjoyed it (although not enough to try and play it at the same time as Warhammer). I see that about pretty much any MMO I read about. That tells me there is a vocal and negative user base for these kinds of games. I’m just trying to suggest that it makes for a more productive discussion if people were able to drop the hyperbole. It’s just not helpful, and it’s not informative. The only thing it does is prove that people can use trendy, inflammatory, or negative words they heard on the internet, and that they can repeat and regurgitate. Children do that when they hear curse words too.
Moaning? That would be another example of hyperbole. I was making an observation. That’s what comments are for. I am not actually expecting anyone to change. Discussion doesn’t work that way these days. Still, it might actually give someone something to think about, which makes it worth commenting on.
about 1 year ago
Cliff, Fair enough, you have an undisputable right to have your own taste and enjoy a game.
The same goes for companies which want to throw money away, it’s their money. I think people tried to be productive with Mythic since at least 2003, pointing out the issues DAoC had, from what I know Warhammer’s beta testers have complained about most of the critical issues the game had in the beta, the game has been released anyway. I didn’t have a chance to test the game even though I applied for a beta and the European open beta test was a closed one. So effectively I threw money away too, on an unfinished game, which was maybe fun for the first 10-20 levels while still having many techincal issues.
about 1 year ago
This is bullshit. I come here to read rants and jibes at Darkfall, not interesting, personal perspective stories. Lum, u=fail
about 1 year ago
I played Warhammer in beta, I played it when it went live.
I realize good/bad is all relative to each person, but speaking as someone who worked for a few years in the gaming press Warhammer was a bad game.
PvE was too bland, and what unique features they did have were beaten to death with overuse. No real dungeons, at least not what I would call a dungeon, for low to mid level players.
PvP was grossly imbalanced class wise. Poorly conceived abilites like AoE knock back spamming added to this. The end game was broken, and for a highly touted “pvp” game the best pvp gear came from pve dungeons.
Poor decisions piled on top of poor decisions with crappy execution of poor decisions piled on top. On top of that even basic features like linking items in chat, among other things, took months to patch in the game.
World of Warcraft taught one lesson. Polish your damn game. There are people out there looking for an alternative, but Warcraft has set certain expectations of minimum features and polish. Fail to learn that and you have Warhammer. A game hyped by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
about 1 year ago
The problem starts when polishing your damn game to meet the Warcraft-set expectations requires a Warcraft budget and, for that, a Warcraft-sized prospective player base — the lowest common denominator. No thanks.
Yeah, by all means polish it, iron out the bugs, get rid of the game crashes (which were my main reason for leaving WAR, by the way) and definitely finish your game by release, but don’t go for those graphical excesses (Conan was a prime example).
about 1 year ago
I don’t think polishing has anything to do with graphics. WoW itself is more a graphical style than a blow your socks off pretty game. It is more to with things you mention. Iron out your bugs, have the extra but of shine metaphorically speaking on everything you are trying to do in the game.
I think too many developers try to do to much. Keep it small enough that you can polish what you have. If that means 4 classes instead of 8 or 8 instead of 16 then so be it. I don’t think it takes a wow budget to polish a game, an EA budget should have been fine.
I’ll wager you this, Star Wars TOR will be far more polished than it’s fellow EA sibling. A lot of that has to do more with project management as much or more than any wow sized budget.
about 1 year ago
Feature creep is always a concern, and learning not to try to do too much or risk diluting what you have, is important for many crafts and many industries. Artists, writers, movie makers, and song writers all have that same issue. I think it is particularly apparent in games, however, and even more specifically MMOGs.
I also agree that Warhammer fell into this trap. They tried to rein it in by dropping some classes and the extra cities, which shows that they knew they had stretched themselves too far in the time they had. Time is always the killer, it seems; time, money, and how it is managed.
I would guess that you are correct Jeff, that project management is a key here. Mythic obviously has some pretty talented people working there. The look, sound, and many concepts for Warhammer are pretty darn solid. That is what keeps me playing. However, there is no doubt that the final product was not finished enough for many players, and I certainly don’t blame them for wanting a complete and polished product. That is reasonable, and should be anticipated by any game company that wishes to maintain a large portion of their initial subscribers.
Obviously, for whatever reasons, this is easier said than done, since Mythic is certainly not the only company to have done this, nor are they the worst. It may be that excellent project management is harder to come by than excellent programmers, artists, and developers.
about 1 year ago
@ Cliff
You’re right, Mythic isn’t alone in releasing unfinished and unpolished games, but they do have a pretty poor track record.
DAoC was a solid hit for its day. But they lost focus and forgot what they were about and tried to become more like EQ in some of their expansions, most notably ToA.
Imperator never saw the light of day. People can say all they want that “it was a good call not to launch it”, but that only glosses over the fact Mythic wasted so much time and money on a failed project that in the end it probably forced their hand when it came to selling themselves to EA.
WAR was a great dissapointment by anyone’s measuring stick.
If you look at their track record it’s not surprising that MJ was fired and that Mythic was placed under Bioware’s watchful eye.
The only shocking thing is that more heads didn’t roll at the top of Mythic.
The really sad part is the story of the CSR guy and his friends. People like them always end up paying for the mistakes long before the bosses that made them do.
about 1 year ago
I definitely agree that it is a damn shame about people like this CSR guy. Really, there are a whole passel of people who worked hard on projects like this and really wanted their project to succeed. It’s frustrating beyond belief to see all sorts of strong talent collected, but for whatever reason, the project as a whole falters.
I had the honor of working next to some fair talent on a low budget film right after I finished college. The writers, director, and producer were not all that good, but they had managed to pull in some pretty strong technical guys. Their main characters were mostly played by bad actors, but some of the smaller roles were performed by some really talented folks. It was pretty fascinating, and very frustrating to watch this talent get wasted on a bad movie. I suppose that is why I am easier on Mythic than some, because I have worked on one real stinker in my time, and know just what truly bad vision can produce.
about 1 year ago
I hardly think comparing the outcomes of a low budget indie film to a development that of a team that are supposed to be seasoned pros is valid.
The one is almost by definition supposed to be half assed, the other is supposed to be a polished product.
about 1 year ago
Jeff, I may not have made myself clear. Low budget, high budget, they have oen thing in common. There were talented indivicuals on both projects and both projects seemingly suffered from mis-management. That was the common factor I was pointing to, as the crew on both projects were seasoned professionals.
Don’t equate low budget film with low quality crew. There were some pretty talented people working on that crew that had been involved in much more expensive high profile projects. The crew were largely hired professionals, with years of experience in the industry. The camera work was solid, the sets were well designed etc. Compared to what a top billed actor gets paid, a seasoned cameraman, art director, grip, etc. are not that expensive. It wasn’t the talent of the technical crew that made that film a stinker.
Low budget does not equal half-assed. It simply means it is low budget, and you won’t have Michael Bay explosions. You can still get a very polished product with the right management of your resources and setting realistic goals for those resources.