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#EAFail
The totally awesome and not at all insulting to
- women who resent being viewed as a walking support system for attractive curves and to
- men who resent being viewed as a random collection of lustful urges
EA advertising campaign is attracting a bit of attention.
Zubon at Kill Ten Rats has a modest proposal.
Since the approach is apparently, “any publicity is good publicity,” I’m just not going to mention any EA games for the rest of the year unless this is somehow made right.
Sorry, Bioware! A commenter at Ars Technica has some experience, being an actual attractive female company representative at conventions. You know.
Have any of you BEEN a “booth babe”? No? Then STFU. Myself, I’ve been a “booth babe” at many comic, scifi and anime cons for the last several yrs. I was also the training manager for ALL employees, running the booths and overseeing the product of two major companies. I also happen to be attractive and enjoy wearing costumes. I have a four-yr degree and my day-job is in the comic industry. But I guess I’m ASKING to be groped because I’m one step up from a hooker, right? Even if I WAS a fucking hooker, that gives no one the right. I can walk around in a thong and pasties and it’s nobody’s license to touch.
The irony: this has happened before. Last year we had legendarily creepy LiveJournal ‘celebrity’ “The Ferrett” announce that you know, it would be a better world if he could just walk up to random strangers at ComicCon and feel their boobs. And being a totally Aspergian geek, he MADE IT OPEN SOURCE.
We talked about this. It was an Open-Source Project, making breasts available to select folks. (Like any good project, you need access control, because there are loutish men and women who just Don’t Get It.) And we wanted a signal to let people know that they were okay with being asked politely, so we turned it into a project:
The Open-Source Boob Project.
Why would anyone take offense at this? WHY GOD WHY? Oh.
This sort of thing happens frequently at cons. Don’t believe me? Ask isako or purpletophat. Women who wear skimpy outfits at cons or even slightly flesh bearing outfits at Cons hear this all the time. Or worse, people just go ahead and do it. I’ve slapped many a fanboy hand.
The idea that you can touch whatever on display is not body positive. It hearkens back to the common plea: “Well officer she deserved it! She was wearing a mini-skirt! She asked for it.” That idea is frankly repugnant. To be fair, I think however that this is more the writer’s salivation than the project’s.
To be fair, I don’t actually believe that the EA marketing droids that came up with this juvenile drivel thought for a moment that they were encouraging the mauling of female convention-goers. Given the history of the marketing for their project, they were really just pulling a Madonna and dancing in front of a burning cross because, hey, fire pretty. Thoughts about consequences? That’s for lame-os!
That doesn’t make their ‘I’m sorry you were offended by our witty marketing, oh, and please buy our game!’ standard corporate straight-from-image-management pseudo-apology any less disgusting.
We apologize for any confusion and offense that resulted from our choice of wording,
And I apologize for any confusion in how I worded my belief that your marketing team was devoid of common sense, views its female employees as sexual objects, and reflects poorly on our entire industry in its juvenile pursuit of attention.
and want to assure you that we take your concerns and sentiments seriously.
How nice for you.
I wish I could be surprised. Unfortunately – not really. Really, the only way this sort of complete and total nimrod idiocy will ever get addressed is if the industry as a whole starts actually, you know, hiring women and promoting them, so that at some point the fratboy “huh huh” atmosphere breaks down and sexual harassment isn’t viewed as a clever in-joke.
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about 1 year ago
Have there been previous instances of that from EA? I know they’re supposed to be the nadir of gaming, but even this seems to be a new low for them.
about 1 year ago
As always, its nice to see that the industry its still ruled for the straight males teens and 20-30 something, who are, of course SO WELCOMING to everything that isnt for them, no wonder that women want to work in this industry SO MUCH!!!.
http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/20/this-just-in-women-exist-in-the-gaming-industry/
Really, i would like to NOT have to repeat myself (many guys in the industry are little mysoginist douches).
about 1 year ago
@Gx1080
“Really, i would like to NOT have to repeat myself (many guys in the industry are little mysoginist douches).”
I wonder if the situation is the same in the game industry outside the US.
about 1 year ago
Oh, and this people, its why you dont let that over sugared/drunk/stoned idiots do your marketing.
about 1 year ago
This is seriously the best blog of 2009 (possible evar). Bonedead, back me up here.
about 1 year ago
This does answer the eternal question – Where DID the marketing department at GOD Games end up? Oh, hey, “My Little Pony 3D Adventure VIII” is coming out next quarter; I’m thinking… wet t-shirt contest at a shelter for battered women?
about 1 year ago
Oddly marketing is the one area of the industry where, in my personal experience, I’ve seen women outnumber men. Of course that’s pretty anecdotal.
It seems obvious what they were going for. Every con I go to I see yahoos getting their picture taken with the paid costumed staff at the booths. Clearly EA was trying to turn that into a game. On a high level that’s not a bad idea, but the way they pitched the campaign clearly touched a few nerves.
I wonder if they would have touched off the same firestorm if they had left out the phrase “commit an act of lust” and just said “have your picture taken with any EA staff or Costumed staff from other companies at ComicCon.”
about 1 year ago
I’ve seen women outnumber men in PR, and in marketing support roles, but not as actual marketing product managers. I don’t have a huge sample size, though.
about 1 year ago
@Vetarnias
Lets see. Theres is the Dead or Alive series who its developed by Tecmo, a japanese company, and theres Funcom, who its Norwegian. AoC anyone?
So yes, the industry its the same everywere. Found a little video about the subject:
http://www.binarymoon.co.uk/2008/05/a-brief-history-of-sex-in-video-games/
(I would put the YouTube link, but you need to sign for it)
about 1 year ago
Haha Ravious is right because, hey, fire pretty.
about 1 year ago
Gotta give ‘em kudos for trying it though
Marketing always goes one step too far, I guess I’m used to it now 
about 1 year ago
…Kudos for trying? Really? Do you also applaud drunk drivers who miss their offramps and plunge into the river?
about 1 year ago
“Sensible marketer,” has always been an oxymoron of sorts. Like “honest lawyer,” you may find the rare example to back it up, but it remains a rarity as the described behavior oft clashes with the job description.
A good lawyer can allow the guilty to go free, just as a good marketer pushes people well into nonsensical behavior (ideally: spending money on crap they don’t need).
So, pushing people who hardly need incentive into lusty behavior at fan-cons? Problematic… but it’s the kind of thing marketers do which has earned my contempt for the whole profession.
about 1 year ago
I’m with Kill Ten rats. Who the hell thought “Let’s make a contest of sexually harassing women” was a good idea? Whee… Appealing to bad stereotypes is fun. The really sad thing is that the stereotypes are were probably accurate.
about 1 year ago
Yeah because potentially killing people while operating a 2 ton hunk of metal while inebriated relates to the story at hand fuckin completely.
about 1 year ago
I think is time the new media follows Zubons suggestion more or less. No one should ever mention the name nor review the game this is meant to promote.
about 1 year ago
Christ I hate the ‘I’m sorry you were offended’ style of ‘apology’. Putting the words ‘I’m sorry’ in your sentence doesn’t make it an apology. Mealy-mouthed evasive bullshit.
about 1 year ago
“Gotta give ‘em kudos for trying it though”
No. No we don’t. We so don’t.
If anything, we gotta give ‘em boycotts for trying it.
Now someone help me find justification to still like Bioware despite them being connected to EA?
about 1 year ago
@ Trevel
You’ve seen the videos for DAO right? There is no justification to still like BioWare despite them being connected to EA.
Just going to have to live with it.
about 1 year ago
I just don’t get how anyone could possibly have thought an ad campaign based on encouraging people to commit sexual assault was a good idea in the first place. Drunken hamsters have more common sense than that.
Hell, it only took a few weeks to teach my dog that humping people’s legs is a bad idea, and my dog is pretty stupid.
Apparently EA marketing is dumber than my dog.
about 1 year ago
@ Caladein
I’m trying to hold out hope that it’s only EA Marketing that’s evil. There’s a tenuous fiber of hope that Bioware made another Bioware-style game and Marketing decided that what would sell it is groping breasts at comicon — I mean, gratuitous violence and inappropriate rock music.
I’m looking forward to the lawsuits from the other companies booth babes.
about 1 year ago
What I can’t understand is how on earth this got vetted and passed by senior management. You’d think that a higher up at EA would have actually read the proposal and realized what it means before signing it just for legal liability reasons.
I wouldn’t spin this though into a blanket case of misogyny on EA’s part, or in games in general. This is noteworthy because it is a huge blunder from a company you wouldn’t expect at all doing so. It would be like Apple doing this. It is a warning about not giving your PR teams enough oversight
dartwick:
no offense, but the new media is a joke in terms of that. I have yet to see any new media give sustained positive coverage to any of the bratz, imagine, or dynasty warrior games, and they keep selling in spite of it. Games like the conduit in the other hand are hyped up relentlessly and get tremendous new media buzz, and then go to tank or gain modest returns.
In this specific game, chances are the strength of the property will be what drives sales, and what will tank it is if no one likes the movie.
about 1 year ago
If you wear ski mask and carry and enter the bank, fully expect to get shot in the face. Dress like a clown, fully expect to get pies tossed at you. If you wear erotic outfit into geek convention, fully expect to get grouped.
This part of human culture and it is not likely to change because some feminazi wants to grab attention and not deal with consequences of said attention.
about 1 year ago
@sinij
That’s a crock of cr@p. I’m embarrased for you.
about 1 year ago
@sinij — The dark ages are calling. They want their misogyny back.
That may be what is fully expected. It shouldn’t be. We don’t want it to be.
about 1 year ago
This thing is really absurd, especially given the fact that I’ve spent the past month going around the GLAAD thing reminding those involved that such harassing mentalities are not the domain of gay people. Thanks EA for serendipitously proving my point for me so I didn’t have to come up with clever analogies.
I find this sickening, and their “apology” was pathetic. It’s also ridiculous how many people are charging forward with the “this is their own fault” banner.
about 1 year ago
@sinij
No
about 1 year ago
@shinj
What the hell are you smoking?
about 1 year ago
@sinij
lol troll gtfo
about 1 year ago
I’m going to join sinij in the “trolling” and post this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OBPaenkxdg
about 1 year ago
“Common Sense” is largely a myth: people tend to draw their own conclusions about the stimuli they encounter. Just as grief players figure that the other player’s are there to torment and amuse them, Sinij’s theory that people wear clothes that reflect how they want to be treated is a valid, if thoroughly incorrect, assumption.
about 1 year ago
EA picked a GayGamer news reporter’s submission as a winner. He wrote them a letter, turning them down, refusing the $240, and rejecting the use of his picture. Hell yes. http://gaygamer.net/2009/07/update_runnerup_for_lust_conte.html
about 1 year ago
Oh good show, brother.
about 1 year ago
Very good show, indeed.
about 1 year ago
I think that theres should be better words to express it, bu then I remembered that EA doesnt really deserve them.
EA just got pwned.
about 1 year ago
Oh I almost forgot, despite the offense that EA pulled, fire pretty.
about 1 year ago
@Jeremy Preacher: “I don’t have a huge sample size, though.”
Really? You’re going to throw out a softball like that, in THIS of all threads?
about 1 year ago
@GreyPawn
Well done, but pity that the guy was just a runner-up. I wonder who actually won the grand prize, probably a brain-dead prick with no moral qualms who deserves to be taunted mercilessly.
about 1 year ago
Somehow I doubt that this got vetted through the proper channels at EA. I would imagine that EA, being a huge company, would have lawyers reviewing any contest rules before they go out. This seems like something that someone would stop before it went public. This was a pretty good article on the legal side of it, not to mention the fact that if you look at SDCC’s history, sexual harassment is common. If anyone at EA 1) was aware of the legal side of sexual harassment and 2) was aware that sexual harassment at Comic-Con is a continuing problem that people have spoken out about, then I doubt that a reasonable person would allow this contest to run. That’s me looking on the bright side, and hoping there are reasonable people at EA.
about 1 year ago
What I’ve been wondering is whether EA’s promises of “a night with one of the hottest girls in town” may fall afoul of various anti-pandering laws?
Oh, and sinj-the-troll: Some day, I hope to see you wearing tight shorts, because obviously, if you wear clothes that make the target obvious, you should expect to get a knee to the nuts. I’m sure you won’t complain, since that’s the natural order of things, right?
about 1 year ago
All this righteous indignation over the feelings of women and LGBT make me wonder if there’s nothing better to think of in these trying times than finding new and exciting ways to feel sorry for ourselves.
about 1 year ago
Sinij:
You aren’t right at all, how you dress isn’t consequential to how you are treated. In the strip bar, you aren’t allowed to grope them either, and if that doesn’t invalidate it I don’t know what does.
Of course you have to be prudent. A stripper never goes outside of the club in pasties and a g-string, and I will never wear tight pants around female gamer as long as I live, but you don’t deserve what happens even so, because other people should be moral. It is human nature that some aren’t. That doesn’t mean what happens is deserved, and it really isn’t anything to do with EA inciting boorish behavior, which is a headslapping display of bad judgement
about 1 year ago
@Female Gamer
I’ve been thinking exactly the same thing. Were San Diego police asked to investigate the matter?
@Gx1080
Ah yes, I was forgetting Age of Conan, perhaps the most misogynistic MMO in recent memory. If only Funcom had steered clear of that, it could have been a great game (well, that and actually finishing it by release).
about 1 year ago
@ geldonyetich
well as you demonstrate attention whoring never goes out of style as an alternative
about 1 year ago
I wonder if this display of public outrage will show itself in EA’s balance sheet. That’s the only thing that matters. All the rest is just landscape.
Corporations aren’t good or evil. They want profits and they’ll do anything for profits. Including playing nice and being socially and environmentally responsible.
Consumers have the power. To bad that when they are about to spend their money they all go “ooohhh, pretty colors”
about 1 year ago
“Ah yes, I was forgetting Age of Conan, perhaps the most misogynistic MMO in recent memory.”
To be fair, if you want to remain faithful to the source material, any Conan game should be misogynistic.
about 1 year ago
Hes right on that and I was thinking more in the Dead or Alive saga.
about 1 year ago
So this has made the rounds and gotten multiple posts just about everywhere.
Attention Gathering Attempt Check: Critical Success. Double Sixes.
So while you’re at it, you can fight the model industry for encouraging girls to be too thin (because no girl really wants to be thin, ever, and they don’t take reinforce the stereotype my keeping “fat” right up there as one of the most damning adjectives to describe other members of their sex). And you can fight damn near EVERY marketing campaign ever put out by companies on national TV, and you can fight HBO, and Hollywood, and Victoria Secret.
Have fun with that.
People can make up their own damn mind whether they want the job or not. They can read, and they sure as hell know what they’re getting in for.
No, it’s not to be groped, but I’m sure they don’t naively go in thinking that’s not going to happen. Models are models, and if putting themselves out there in skimpy outfits to show off their ta-tas in ridiculous costumes isn’t the whole-hearted endorsement of objectification, I don’t know what is. They *signed up* for this, here and elsewhere; they’ve *chosen* to make a career out of it.
They could just as easily get some other job where they can put on normal work clothes like everyone else and not have to worry about “fratboy-minded geeks” feeling them up.
If they get molested, then, yes, that’s wrong and the perpetrators should be handled accordingly. I don’t think anyone is disputing that.
Was it a badly worded ad-campaign? Sure.
Could it have used fine print saying: “This contest in no way endorses anything other than taking your photo with the “booth babe”; molesting the “babes” will result in immediate disqualification and removal from premises by security.” Sure.
That was the intention, and taking your picture with a girl who is there to have her picture taken over and over again is business as usual.
Will some rude jackass take the opportunity to grope? Absolutely. Is that a reflection on EA because it happens? No. It’s a reflection that individual. And they should be summarily handed, just as they would be if they inevitably engaged in that anywhere else.
But let’s not pretend that this is a sign of a bigger issue. If you’re going after objectification, going after EA is a little too discriminating. Why not just ban booth babes altogether? Problem solved.
Those poor girls will not have to endure any more grubbing. Course, they’ll be out of work too, but hey, we’re here to promote a lofty moral standard that ignores a timeless, plain and simple truth about humanity that’s not going to change as long as we care about a woman looking like a woman.
See you at church, boys and girls!
about 1 year ago
@Raethys
“Is that a reflection on EA because it happens? No. It’s a reflection that individual.”
Baloney. Did you actually see the advert? “Sin to Win”…”Commit Acts of Lust”
That reflects on the company that set up the campaign. If you don’t see that, it reflects upon you as well.
“See you at church, boys and girls!”
I’ll pass. I don’t think I’d care for the church you attend.
about 1 year ago
I was looking around the internet pretty much every case where I can find the phrase “act of lust” it refers to intercourse.
Shakespeare use “loathsome act of lust” to refer to rape.
I dont really think it would be sexual harassment in a court if you were arrested for feeling up a booth babe(who was emploeyed by EA).
EA pays her to be there and encourages people to do it. Although potentially you could run afoul of what ever sex laws they have in CA.
about 1 year ago
Listen, if I went out and committed “Acts of Lust” every time some marketing campaign encouraged me to do so, I’d be beaten, in jail, or worse.
This mentality of “Oh, the TV told me to do it! Oh, Harry Potter influences our children to engage in satanic worship and black magic! Oh, the song on the radio said I should go bust a cap in his ass, so I did! It’s not MY fault!” is pure bullshit that reeks of censorship endorsement and dangerous presumptions that none of us are capable of thinking for ourselves.
Personally, I have my own mind, thanks. I know when an ad campaign is tongue in cheek, and I know that you’re not supposed to feel up the model, regardless of what it says. Blaming the company, the media, or anything for your own lack of discretion is the cry of irresponsibility that endorses the kind of government policies that don’t hold individuals accountable for their own actions.
It’s as simple as this: Grope the babe, get bounced for not knowing better. It’s nobody’s fault but your own.
about 1 year ago
@Dblade
If a stripper didn’t have to worry about some men having misogynic views on skimpy dresses, why does she need to be prudent when she steps out in her skimpy dress? Unless… there ARE men who would grope women who look like strippers! And being “prudent” means covering up. Covering up means giving in to the misogynistic male oppression and kissing women’s rights goodbye forever.
about 1 year ago
@Jeremy Preacher: Kudos for trying? Really? Do you also applaud drunk drivers who miss their offramps and plunge into the river?
Is there really a need to drag Ted Kennedy into this?
about 1 year ago
*snicker*
about 1 year ago
You didn’t get it.
about 1 year ago
The only thing I would say to the booth babes is:
If you think that by prancing around half naked, that you’re being seen as anything other than a sexual object, then you are a moron and deserve some sort of wake up call. In fact, you’d have to have a severe learning disability in order to think that you are somehow inviting people to get to know you better as a person, or somehow better representing your brand by putting skin on display.
That doesn’t mean that it’s okay for horny idiots to grope you.
That doesn’t mean that EA isn’t absolutely retarded.
At the same time, what you’re doing is classic manipulation, using sex to get attention and possibly sell things that have nothing to do with sex. If some one gets confused about what is being offered, part of the burden is on you for deliberately creating that confusion in the first place.
about 1 year ago
@Iconic
That’s probably the most even-handed way of looking at the situation, really.
It’s not that I’m saying women (or LGBT) don’t deserve the respect of common human decency or anything, it’s just that all this righteous indignation is not very logical. When push comes to shove, it’s less a problem with EA or of a victimized individual, but rather a certainly revealing undercurrent of unresolved societal delusion.
Sex was never designed to be a toy, or an object to glamorize, but that nonetheless are popular roles for it in western culture.
about 1 year ago
@Iconic
You win the thread.
about 1 year ago
Freakazoid:
I think you are putting too much emphasis on rights in a situation which is more about safety situationally, or about the reality that some people will do bad things. Some men are like that, and you really can’t tell, and there’s times where it is more important to be safe then loudly proclaim your liberation.
I think of it more as “There are times when you shouldn’t flash around a large wad of cash or you risk robbery.” You can talk about how that mindset endangers property rights or oppresses people with a climate of fear, and how the criminal views of people that would steal are horribly wrong and need to be corrected, but the reality is you cave in or you risk robbery.
There’s insisting on rights, and there is taking a needless risk, and my point on prudence is more of the latter. Like it or not, that’s the way the world works.
about 1 year ago
Did you realise that it’s still robbery even if that dude was totally asking for it, flashing his wad around like that? I don’t think the Judge is going to throw the case out because the plaintiff was gratuitously wealthy in a public place, or something.
Perhaps EA should have gone balls-out on this one? “Grab a double-handful of D-cup and win a free night in a Police cell! You too could meet a Judge and even get your name on the sex offenders’ register!”
about 1 year ago
Well one problem is incorrect terminology.
Its not sexual harassment thats the issue.
Its assault or sexual assault.
about 1 year ago
Newsflash: sex sells.
Did I miss something?
about 1 year ago
They probably figured that, so long as people kept it within the cons, there’s be no potential for this because the guards would keep things in hand.
Which, of course, is drastically underestimating the depravity of random_internet_denizen_498145.
As a penalty, EA should fit the bill of additional danger pay for all booth babes for the duration of this contest.
about 1 year ago
My main problem with booth babes (before the ‘contest’ and groping business came up) is that ultimately, it telegraphs a failure of the marketing team to come up with any better way to draw attention to their product than the most base of attraction. If “hey lookit the purty ladies” is the only message you can think of to present, then you’re not getting your money’s worth from your marketing team.
I’m also not opposed to stunts, either. Nintendo Wii dumped a few hundred tons of sand on Times Square to do a simulated beach scene. Corny? Yes. Encouraging rape and sexual depravity? No.
about 1 year ago
Much like strippers, booth babes are paid to wear less clothing than they normally would, and tolerate attention that they normally would not. Much like strippers, you’re not supposed to touch them.
about 1 year ago
Shake it baby.
http://twitter.com/georgeb3dr/status/2823439912
about 1 year ago
That’s it, Broussard, ride that bad publicity pony.
about 1 year ago
George Broussard is almost as good at understanding the issue as he is shipping sequels on time and under budget.
about 1 year ago
I agree with Lum completely, but at the same time I think we can rule out any possibility that his new job that he has not been able to tell us about is at EA or EA Bioware. lol
about 1 year ago
I hate the way feminists and wimps are always ruining everything. Soon, they’ll insist on equal rights for women, laws to prevent rape and harassment, and all sorts of other wimpy feminist crap.
Good thing that women don’t have money and aren’t allowed to make purchasing decisions, or else all this macho posturing would really seem like a stupid marketing strategy for a mainstream business to embrace.
about 1 year ago
You know, I don’t object to booth babes in general. They sign up, know what they’re being paid for, and hopefully enjoy at least some of it. Maybe some Booth Boys would be nice to even it up, if there aren’t any already … but in the long run, it’s impossible to get too upset at someone for objectifying themself.
.
That is not, however, the same thing as having a major company run a contest to objectify them. And encourages sinfully committing acts of lust against them. One is done BY them — the other done TO them — and in some cases by a company they don’t work for.
.
But I’m also largely annoyed at the thought that, as a young heterosexual video-game playing male, the ad was supposed to be aimed at me. How insulting is that? Is that really who EA thinks we are?
about 1 year ago
A cursory bit of googling determines that there, indeed, booth boys. Though they would probably be considerably harder to engage in “acts of lust” considering the gamer look for guys is apparently full body armor.
about 1 year ago
Technically, I believe the term should be “Booth Hunk”, not “Booth Boy”. Anyway. what really needs to be done regarding cons and sexual harassment is to have an active no tolerance policy for it. Most of the cons have very stringent rules on costumes, but little or no defined harassment policies. If I walked down the street and people made catcalls or some such (without touching), I couldn’t really sue them for sexual harassment and win. However, if it was at a convention with clearly defined rules, I could notify security and have them expelled.
You’d think rules like that would already be in place, but they are sadly not. There’s a group that’s trying to get those rules changed, however. http://www.cahp.girl-wonder.org/
–Rawr
about 1 year ago
Maybe I’m just as much of a sicko as the EA marketing people, but I think it wouldn’t be half bad if they added a line that said “choice or male or female” to the list. I mean, then every sex and sexual preference would be covered there, right?
I guess I’m just too used to sex being used to sell games to be outraged at that anymore. The inequality still gets to me, though.
about 1 year ago
You need to lighten up.
All of you.
I mean who freakin’ cares?
All this blogging about it? Aren’t there bigger problems in the world to blog about?
Seriously … you are so easy to agitate.
OMG they wrote something on a poster. Poster baaaad, must show my discontent.
What really would have been funny is when nobody, freakin’ nobody wrote or said anything about the contest.
- You heared about the latest EA contest?
* EA contest? Nope.
- It’s supposed to be real nasty.
* Don’t know, don’t care.
Voila. The end.
Now hush and go watch your porn. Hypocrite.
about 1 year ago
Phew! For a while there I was concerned that stupid people weren’t getting to express their views on this issue. Glad to see we dodged that bullet!
about 1 year ago
I was watching porn with full awareness of the hypocritical aspect, but nonetheless, “don’t know, don’t care” is never a pillar of unbreakable logic.
about 1 year ago
“…“don’t know, don’t care” is never a pillar of unbreakable logic.” No, but it’s the foundation of much internet idiocy.