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	<title>Comments on: The Curious Case Of The Poorly Behaved Professor</title>
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	<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/</link>
	<description>Random Comments About Games and Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: Drakiis</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30608</link>
		<dc:creator>Drakiis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30608</guid>
		<description>Hypocrite crack pot and a noob, the good Mr. Myers has no idea what he&#039;s talking about concerning the social dynamics involved in online gaming.  He should try logging a few years before he makes any observations, online communities are not something one can just jump into and learn all there is to know about them, they are complex and evolving social networks that are global.  They are not a romper room of mindless deviants, well not everyone anyhow lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hypocrite crack pot and a noob, the good Mr. Myers has no idea what he&#8217;s talking about concerning the social dynamics involved in online gaming.  He should try logging a few years before he makes any observations, online communities are not something one can just jump into and learn all there is to know about them, they are complex and evolving social networks that are global.  They are not a romper room of mindless deviants, well not everyone anyhow lol.</p>
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		<title>By: Zer0Vis</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30358</link>
		<dc:creator>Zer0Vis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30358</guid>
		<description>Exploit? Cheating? How you long time players forgot this is beyond me. The Devs knew and said it was ok. So what it comes down to is the rules of the people or the rules of the game. Which the Devs state in the link what they are. 


http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=Champion&amp;Number=5139510&amp;Searchpage=4&amp;Main=5134443&amp;Words=CuppaJo&amp;topic=&amp;Search=true#Post5139510

Face it COH is bad. Go try and farm in WoW on a PvP server. Die come to life hes there to kill you again. Come to life: him and his buddies are there to kill you now. Its PvP anything within the rules is fair game. So who really broke the rules? The players with threats or the guy that did what the devs said was ok. Twixt killed me 100&#039;s of times. I got mad but I never threatened him plus I remember the devs saying his play style was fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exploit? Cheating? How you long time players forgot this is beyond me. The Devs knew and said it was ok. So what it comes down to is the rules of the people or the rules of the game. Which the Devs state in the link what they are. </p>
<p><a href="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=Champion&amp;Number=5139510&amp;Searchpage=4&amp;Main=5134443&amp;Words=CuppaJo&amp;topic=&amp;Search=true#Post5139510" rel="nofollow">http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=Champion&amp;Number=5139510&amp;Searchpage=4&amp;Main=5134443&amp;Words=CuppaJo&amp;topic=&amp;Search=true#Post5139510</a></p>
<p>Face it COH is bad. Go try and farm in WoW on a PvP server. Die come to life hes there to kill you again. Come to life: him and his buddies are there to kill you now. Its PvP anything within the rules is fair game. So who really broke the rules? The players with threats or the guy that did what the devs said was ok. Twixt killed me 100&#8217;s of times. I got mad but I never threatened him plus I remember the devs saying his play style was fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30351</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30351</guid>
		<description>I think the whole study would have been more interesting if it had been about how people with antisocial personality disorders can express their disfunction more easily behind the anonymity of an MMO.  A person in real life cannot behave this way without the community taking some action.  The annonimity provided by CoH allowed the professor to continue to behave badly due to the limited recourse the comminuty had.  It would be interesting to know what the proff is like in real life.  Does he have many friends, a wife, kids?  Was he bullied at school.  We&#039;ve all ganked someone in an MMO at some stage, but unsually its a  spur of the moment kill rather than a systematic process conducted over a period of months.  Study or no study I think this says something about the person behind the &quot;Hero&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the whole study would have been more interesting if it had been about how people with antisocial personality disorders can express their disfunction more easily behind the anonymity of an MMO.  A person in real life cannot behave this way without the community taking some action.  The annonimity provided by CoH allowed the professor to continue to behave badly due to the limited recourse the comminuty had.  It would be interesting to know what the proff is like in real life.  Does he have many friends, a wife, kids?  Was he bullied at school.  We&#8217;ve all ganked someone in an MMO at some stage, but unsually its a  spur of the moment kill rather than a systematic process conducted over a period of months.  Study or no study I think this says something about the person behind the &#8220;Hero&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: AMIB</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30341</link>
		<dc:creator>AMIB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30341</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, Sirlin (who I normally respect) picked this up and kind of missed the point.

http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2009/7/7/dr-house-and-the-professor-who-played-to-win.html

Discussion thread: http://forums.sirlin.net/showthread.php?t=2218</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, Sirlin (who I normally respect) picked this up and kind of missed the point.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2009/7/7/dr-house-and-the-professor-who-played-to-win.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2009/7/7/dr-house-and-the-professor-who-played-to-win.html</a></p>
<p>Discussion thread: <a href="http://forums.sirlin.net/showthread.php?t=2218" rel="nofollow">http://forums.sirlin.net/showthread.php?t=2218</a></p>
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		<title>By: ceolstan</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30332</link>
		<dc:creator>ceolstan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30332</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that people are looking at the issue from a social perspective.  Yes, that&#039;s interesting, but I tend to go along with Lum on this one: it&#039;s a design issue.  Fix the game, not the player.

Players will steal kills, steal loot, kill other players using exploits, etc.  If the game design allows a behavior, players will engage in that behavior.  Twixt&#039;s argument that he was playing within the rules of the game echoes the same kind of justification that many PKs in Diablo II used to justify their exploit of game mechanics (the teleport PK, wherein the PK lures monsters to the teleport site so as to kill players) or shooting arrows that will go into the safe zone.  In both cases, players are being &quot;fair&quot; within the broad definition of doing what the game allows them to do.  

At the same time, those actions have an impact on the broader social interaction of the players.  Now, in Diablo II, Blizzard&#039;s Sirian argued that the Hostile button created an interesting dynamic.  It did.  It created a game culture founded on paranoia.  Even though player communities evolved systems of passworded games, all player communities needed to be on the lookout for people who intentionally trespassed on that community in order to PK the players.

Developers need to determine the kind of community they wish to have in their game.  If they wish to allow certain types of gameplay to emerge, they also need to determine where they wish to draw the line.  EULAs aren&#039;t worth much, but a line or two about player behavior that depends upon exploiting game mechanics will allow for players to have their accounts banned.  Thus, until the fix can be coded in, the only recourse that the majority of players have is to report the behavior to the GMs, who should investigate the situation.

I do have to wonder, though, what Twixt would have thought if he&#039;d pulled the same sort of behavior in a game like EVE.  I&#039;d also like to know if he would have considered it safe to do so, from a game perspective.  

And that leads to the more interesting question.  It&#039;s not a case of whether or not players in an online game go to extremes when presented with someone who violates the social norms of the game, but what resources do online gamers have to enforce social compliance.  In real life, the penalty for being an unrepentant jerk is to become a social pariah.  Yes, the jerk may not be breaking any laws, but at the same time, the victims have some social recourse.  They can avoid contact.  They can tell their friends, family, and co-workers about the jerk.  There&#039;s a heavy social penalty for going against social mores.

In the online world, players have little they can do to curb antisocial behavior.  From that kind of impotence, it&#039;s not hard to see that publishing the home address of the player is a form of trying to tell the player that online anonymity is often illusory, and that there is indeed a consequence for violating social norms.  

Of course, such a response is equally anti-social, which brings us back to the issue of fixing the game, not the player. If players are allowed to be jerks in the game, then the game needs to allow other players to have some sort of recourse as a response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that people are looking at the issue from a social perspective.  Yes, that&#8217;s interesting, but I tend to go along with Lum on this one: it&#8217;s a design issue.  Fix the game, not the player.</p>
<p>Players will steal kills, steal loot, kill other players using exploits, etc.  If the game design allows a behavior, players will engage in that behavior.  Twixt&#8217;s argument that he was playing within the rules of the game echoes the same kind of justification that many PKs in Diablo II used to justify their exploit of game mechanics (the teleport PK, wherein the PK lures monsters to the teleport site so as to kill players) or shooting arrows that will go into the safe zone.  In both cases, players are being &#8220;fair&#8221; within the broad definition of doing what the game allows them to do.  </p>
<p>At the same time, those actions have an impact on the broader social interaction of the players.  Now, in Diablo II, Blizzard&#8217;s Sirian argued that the Hostile button created an interesting dynamic.  It did.  It created a game culture founded on paranoia.  Even though player communities evolved systems of passworded games, all player communities needed to be on the lookout for people who intentionally trespassed on that community in order to PK the players.</p>
<p>Developers need to determine the kind of community they wish to have in their game.  If they wish to allow certain types of gameplay to emerge, they also need to determine where they wish to draw the line.  EULAs aren&#8217;t worth much, but a line or two about player behavior that depends upon exploiting game mechanics will allow for players to have their accounts banned.  Thus, until the fix can be coded in, the only recourse that the majority of players have is to report the behavior to the GMs, who should investigate the situation.</p>
<p>I do have to wonder, though, what Twixt would have thought if he&#8217;d pulled the same sort of behavior in a game like EVE.  I&#8217;d also like to know if he would have considered it safe to do so, from a game perspective.  </p>
<p>And that leads to the more interesting question.  It&#8217;s not a case of whether or not players in an online game go to extremes when presented with someone who violates the social norms of the game, but what resources do online gamers have to enforce social compliance.  In real life, the penalty for being an unrepentant jerk is to become a social pariah.  Yes, the jerk may not be breaking any laws, but at the same time, the victims have some social recourse.  They can avoid contact.  They can tell their friends, family, and co-workers about the jerk.  There&#8217;s a heavy social penalty for going against social mores.</p>
<p>In the online world, players have little they can do to curb antisocial behavior.  From that kind of impotence, it&#8217;s not hard to see that publishing the home address of the player is a form of trying to tell the player that online anonymity is often illusory, and that there is indeed a consequence for violating social norms.  </p>
<p>Of course, such a response is equally anti-social, which brings us back to the issue of fixing the game, not the player. If players are allowed to be jerks in the game, then the game needs to allow other players to have some sort of recourse as a response.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Jennings</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30328</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Jennings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30328</guid>
		<description>Next chapter in the Curious Case is up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Next chapter in the Curious Case is up!</p>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30324</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30324</guid>
		<description>Who says I&#039;m letting God off the hook, either?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who says I&#8217;m letting God off the hook, either?</p>
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		<title>By: J.</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30323</link>
		<dc:creator>J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30323</guid>
		<description>The argument about game rules vs. social rules is irrelevant; CoH is not merely a game but a society, albeit one where the citizens choose to be there for no greater reason than recreation, but one with a history. The developers are not to be held any more responsible for the behavior of players than God is for mankind&#039;s, though both could potentially wield the power to change behaviors and/or remove members from society, and in the meantime, any negative reaction to anti-social behavior is justifiable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument about game rules vs. social rules is irrelevant; CoH is not merely a game but a society, albeit one where the citizens choose to be there for no greater reason than recreation, but one with a history. The developers are not to be held any more responsible for the behavior of players than God is for mankind&#8217;s, though both could potentially wield the power to change behaviors and/or remove members from society, and in the meantime, any negative reaction to anti-social behavior is justifiable.</p>
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		<title>By: Hatch</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30321</link>
		<dc:creator>Hatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30321</guid>
		<description>I only feel bad he had to try and squeeze enjoyment from grief out of such a poor system. UO circa 1999 would have been MUCH MUCH better. In that system he would have been eaten alive by other griefers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only feel bad he had to try and squeeze enjoyment from grief out of such a poor system. UO circa 1999 would have been MUCH MUCH better. In that system he would have been eaten alive by other griefers.</p>
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		<title>By: Outlawedprod</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-30320</link>
		<dc:creator>Outlawedprod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentoys.org/2009/07/07/the-curious-case-of-the-poorly-behaved-professor/#comment-30320</guid>
		<description>http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=13718124&amp;page=0

LOL. People in that thread discussing if they can get him written up on ethics violations.  Maybe his research will TRULY be vindicated.

Prof seems to be arguing that because the games are so open their rules are not sacrosanct and individual freedom is repressed because the more important player-mob community rules which emerge dictate the real rules.  The funny thing is that to those who play MMOs this behavior is known and a given.  Enough cry nerf you get your nerf (except I guess enough didn&#039;t cry to ncsoft about TP killing).  Majority rules (because that&#039;s where the most money is) and  everyone else is marginalized.  Sort of like real life!!  MMOs truly are the next step to virtual reality.  Of course real hardcore RP&#039;ers know you handle business with death threats and no matter what ALWAYS stay in character.  If only this blog was written in character for his twixt persona.  Would make this even more ubar.

P.S. I will applaud ncsoft for siding with the tp killing mechanic.  Red  = dead indeed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=13718124&amp;page=0" rel="nofollow">http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=13718124&amp;page=0</a></p>
<p>LOL. People in that thread discussing if they can get him written up on ethics violations.  Maybe his research will TRULY be vindicated.</p>
<p>Prof seems to be arguing that because the games are so open their rules are not sacrosanct and individual freedom is repressed because the more important player-mob community rules which emerge dictate the real rules.  The funny thing is that to those who play MMOs this behavior is known and a given.  Enough cry nerf you get your nerf (except I guess enough didn&#8217;t cry to ncsoft about TP killing).  Majority rules (because that&#8217;s where the most money is) and  everyone else is marginalized.  Sort of like real life!!  MMOs truly are the next step to virtual reality.  Of course real hardcore RP&#8217;ers know you handle business with death threats and no matter what ALWAYS stay in character.  If only this blog was written in character for his twixt persona.  Would make this even more ubar.</p>
<p>P.S. I will applaud ncsoft for siding with the tp killing mechanic.  Red  = dead indeed?</p>
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