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	<title>Comments on: Rights, Profit, Drama</title>
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	<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/</link>
	<description>Random Comments About Games and Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: Viz</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24153</link>
		<dc:creator>Viz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-24153</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-24039&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Rog &lt;/a&gt; 
Uh?  If you say so, but &quot;Profits&quot; is the only faction with a vested interest in the long-term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-24039" rel="nofollow">@Rog </a><br />
Uh?  If you say so, but &#8220;Profits&#8221; is the only faction with a vested interest in the long-term.</p>
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		<title>By: Bugz</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24138</link>
		<dc:creator>Bugz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-24138</guid>
		<description>IainC, this is the danger presented by people who believe in a Living Constitution, who believe that the Constitution says they want it to say, instead of what it actually says, what the founders intended it to say when it was written.  If the Constution doesn&#039;t meet the needs of the 21st Century, the founders provided an effective remedy.  Get an Amendment approved.  

Amendments are hard, so how much easier is it to get judges to invent &#039;rights&#039; out of thin air, and make rulings according the their consciences instead of according to the law?

When you start going down that road, and we are well down that road already, you may as well not have a Constitution at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IainC, this is the danger presented by people who believe in a Living Constitution, who believe that the Constitution says they want it to say, instead of what it actually says, what the founders intended it to say when it was written.  If the Constution doesn&#8217;t meet the needs of the 21st Century, the founders provided an effective remedy.  Get an Amendment approved.  </p>
<p>Amendments are hard, so how much easier is it to get judges to invent &#8216;rights&#8217; out of thin air, and make rulings according the their consciences instead of according to the law?</p>
<p>When you start going down that road, and we are well down that road already, you may as well not have a Constitution at all.</p>
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		<title>By: IainC</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24123</link>
		<dc:creator>IainC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-24123</guid>
		<description>Prokofy, you need to take into consideration what it is that the First Amendment does, and not what you think it does.

You do not have a constitutional right to free speech. Your government (local and federal) is simply prohibited from making laws that would make your speech less free. Anyone who isn&#039;t your government can set what rules they like in their own demesne.

&#039;Common carriers&#039; are not the US government and no amount of handwaving or bloviating will make the First Amendment apply to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prokofy, you need to take into consideration what it is that the First Amendment does, and not what you think it does.</p>
<p>You do not have a constitutional right to free speech. Your government (local and federal) is simply prohibited from making laws that would make your speech less free. Anyone who isn&#8217;t your government can set what rules they like in their own demesne.</p>
<p>&#8216;Common carriers&#8217; are not the US government and no amount of handwaving or bloviating will make the First Amendment apply to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Prokofy Neva</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24105</link>
		<dc:creator>Prokofy Neva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-24105</guid>
		<description>Re: Scott Jennings. Nobody has a constitutional right to post on another&#039;s blog. I myself have a simple rule for posting on my blog which isn&#039;t about whether you want to &quot;hate on me&quot; or not. You may, but only if you post with your RL or SL name. You also can&#039;t incite damages to me in SL or RL, i.e. call for me to be subject to a libel lawsuit or call for people to crash my SL sims or harass me by calling me at home and stalking me.

But massive social media services like Twitter? Second Life? etc.? They serve as a public commons, as a common carrier, and it is really of grave concern that these public commons where more and more people spend their time because they&#039;re not in RL public commons have more restrictions than their town halls would have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Scott Jennings. Nobody has a constitutional right to post on another&#8217;s blog. I myself have a simple rule for posting on my blog which isn&#8217;t about whether you want to &#8220;hate on me&#8221; or not. You may, but only if you post with your RL or SL name. You also can&#8217;t incite damages to me in SL or RL, i.e. call for me to be subject to a libel lawsuit or call for people to crash my SL sims or harass me by calling me at home and stalking me.</p>
<p>But massive social media services like Twitter? Second Life? etc.? They serve as a public commons, as a common carrier, and it is really of grave concern that these public commons where more and more people spend their time because they&#8217;re not in RL public commons have more restrictions than their town halls would have.</p>
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		<title>By: Prokofy Neva</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24104</link>
		<dc:creator>Prokofy Neva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-24104</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-23810&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@robusticus&lt;/a&gt; 
This is silly fanboy stuff. We live in a changing world where massive rebellions against the unconscionable Facebook TOS take place. There is no need to stay frozen in time imagining that massive common carriers like social media or virtual worlds are somehow immune from First Amendment protections. More and more this will get challenged as it has in the Mall of America and other court cases. Imagining that this is somehow legitimate to boot a paying customer for &quot;any reason or no reason&quot; is to endorse the oppression that may come for you some day.

IN fact, I didn&#039;t do anything wrong. Lindens at the time said I didn&#039;t violate the TOS. What happened is their NDA players rebelled and jammed their little fanboyz fingers on the AR button so many times that the Lindens felt they &quot;had to act&quot; because &quot;thecommmuuuuunity&quot; wanted it. They said they did this &quot;for business reasons&quot; and they&#039;re right. I criticized the very top selling feted inner core residents who brought them the most publicity, press, and income and with whom in some cases they had pet projects, private deals, NDAs. So, they were right, by their lights, to act against their own TOS for &quot;business reasons&quot;.

Interestingly, I am now allowed back on the Linden blogs and new threaded comments. They overhauled the web page and dropped the old bans deliberately. I don&#039;t change anything about how I post. I may not last long, who knows. It&#039;s funny to think about how the mighty have fallen, some of the people the Lindens so fiercely protected from my legitimate criticism over the favouritism shown to them are long out of SL or not visible anymore or has-beens. One of the is a founder of OpenSim, the SL competitor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-23810" rel="nofollow">@robusticus</a><br />
This is silly fanboy stuff. We live in a changing world where massive rebellions against the unconscionable Facebook TOS take place. There is no need to stay frozen in time imagining that massive common carriers like social media or virtual worlds are somehow immune from First Amendment protections. More and more this will get challenged as it has in the Mall of America and other court cases. Imagining that this is somehow legitimate to boot a paying customer for &#8220;any reason or no reason&#8221; is to endorse the oppression that may come for you some day.</p>
<p>IN fact, I didn&#8217;t do anything wrong. Lindens at the time said I didn&#8217;t violate the TOS. What happened is their NDA players rebelled and jammed their little fanboyz fingers on the AR button so many times that the Lindens felt they &#8220;had to act&#8221; because &#8220;thecommmuuuuunity&#8221; wanted it. They said they did this &#8220;for business reasons&#8221; and they&#8217;re right. I criticized the very top selling feted inner core residents who brought them the most publicity, press, and income and with whom in some cases they had pet projects, private deals, NDAs. So, they were right, by their lights, to act against their own TOS for &#8220;business reasons&#8221;.</p>
<p>Interestingly, I am now allowed back on the Linden blogs and new threaded comments. They overhauled the web page and dropped the old bans deliberately. I don&#8217;t change anything about how I post. I may not last long, who knows. It&#8217;s funny to think about how the mighty have fallen, some of the people the Lindens so fiercely protected from my legitimate criticism over the favouritism shown to them are long out of SL or not visible anymore or has-beens. One of the is a founder of OpenSim, the SL competitor.</p>
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		<title>By: Channel Massive &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 84 - Secret Special Ending</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24060</link>
		<dc:creator>Channel Massive &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 84 - Secret Special Ending</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 05:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-24060</guid>
		<description>[...] Rights, Profit, Drama. (via Broken Toys) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rights, Profit, Drama. (via Broken Toys) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eolirin</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24058</link>
		<dc:creator>Eolirin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 03:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-24058</guid>
		<description>I dunno, I think that while somewhat illustrative, the privacy stuff is probably not the best example, since the things being called for would be relatively easy to implement without any undue burden on the profits end of things; phone companies are not hurt by their inability to collect detailed data on the conversations that go over their phone lines, but there are still avenues to selectively monitor people that may be abusing said systems. Basically, what&#039;s being called for is for Virtual Worlds to be held to the same standards that other comparative industries (like cell providers) already are; so tells and chatlogs are off limits without cause, and the government can&#039;t decide it wants get at that information without reaching the same standard of probable cause that is demanded in other areas. 

Basically, getting data on electronic communications should have the same restrictions as getting a wiretap, and it currently isn&#039;t. The only way the people running MMOGs can get in trouble is if they&#039;re abusive in the way that they collect and use information streaming over their services, and it&#039;s really not hard to make the changes to the service to avoid that; purge chat logs after a given (short) interval, make it illegal to access them without consent or for clearly defined service related issues, and then only to the extent that is necessary and everything&#039;ll be fine. 

The more important thing is to protect this data from government and law enforcement in the same way that other priveledged communications are; otherwise you bypass all privacy protections as more people start using the net related services for communication instead of the telephone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, I think that while somewhat illustrative, the privacy stuff is probably not the best example, since the things being called for would be relatively easy to implement without any undue burden on the profits end of things; phone companies are not hurt by their inability to collect detailed data on the conversations that go over their phone lines, but there are still avenues to selectively monitor people that may be abusing said systems. Basically, what&#8217;s being called for is for Virtual Worlds to be held to the same standards that other comparative industries (like cell providers) already are; so tells and chatlogs are off limits without cause, and the government can&#8217;t decide it wants get at that information without reaching the same standard of probable cause that is demanded in other areas. </p>
<p>Basically, getting data on electronic communications should have the same restrictions as getting a wiretap, and it currently isn&#8217;t. The only way the people running MMOGs can get in trouble is if they&#8217;re abusive in the way that they collect and use information streaming over their services, and it&#8217;s really not hard to make the changes to the service to avoid that; purge chat logs after a given (short) interval, make it illegal to access them without consent or for clearly defined service related issues, and then only to the extent that is necessary and everything&#8217;ll be fine. </p>
<p>The more important thing is to protect this data from government and law enforcement in the same way that other priveledged communications are; otherwise you bypass all privacy protections as more people start using the net related services for communication instead of the telephone.</p>
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		<title>By: Rog</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24039</link>
		<dc:creator>Rog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-24039</guid>
		<description>In the representation of this triangle, it seems as though Drama is illustrated merely as a more extreme version of Rights. 

I&#039;d say there&#039;s also the extreme version of Profit, where it&#039;s deemed that maximizing profit is the utmost value of all. In fact, I&#039;d argue that Profit tends to be more totalitarian by default, because it&#039;s more direct and focused, it&#039;s only complexities seem to be when it butts up against Rights.

Now, you could say I&#039;m skewed, that I&#039;m clearly in the Rights category, but in all honesty I&#039;d like more balance. The presentation of this triangle is such that the balance leans more toward Rights because Rights really has two points on the triangle together with Drama. I&#039;d posit that the weight, culturally speaking (Western / Our culture) is far heavier on Profit, because even those on the side of Rights respect Profit to such a large degree.

Whatever happened to game developers with passion for games, fun and social experiments? Rather than a means to and ends at a dollar? I do like the reference to Raph Koster&#039;s attempt at balance.

Profit&#039;s biggest problem is the lack of respect for the longterm and bigger industry-wide picture. Cashing in constantly is detrimental to almost everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the representation of this triangle, it seems as though Drama is illustrated merely as a more extreme version of Rights. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d say there&#8217;s also the extreme version of Profit, where it&#8217;s deemed that maximizing profit is the utmost value of all. In fact, I&#8217;d argue that Profit tends to be more totalitarian by default, because it&#8217;s more direct and focused, it&#8217;s only complexities seem to be when it butts up against Rights.</p>
<p>Now, you could say I&#8217;m skewed, that I&#8217;m clearly in the Rights category, but in all honesty I&#8217;d like more balance. The presentation of this triangle is such that the balance leans more toward Rights because Rights really has two points on the triangle together with Drama. I&#8217;d posit that the weight, culturally speaking (Western / Our culture) is far heavier on Profit, because even those on the side of Rights respect Profit to such a large degree.</p>
<p>Whatever happened to game developers with passion for games, fun and social experiments? Rather than a means to and ends at a dollar? I do like the reference to Raph Koster&#8217;s attempt at balance.</p>
<p>Profit&#8217;s biggest problem is the lack of respect for the longterm and bigger industry-wide picture. Cashing in constantly is detrimental to almost everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Holy Serfs and Libertarian Dickheads &#171; Aporia, or Kaseido&#8217;s Quandries</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-23956</link>
		<dc:creator>Holy Serfs and Libertarian Dickheads &#171; Aporia, or Kaseido&#8217;s Quandries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-23956</guid>
		<description>[...] It’s been fascinating watching the reaction. My main sources for public opinion are the discussion thread on the LiveJournal WoW community and the comments to a terrific, thought-provoking post by veteran game designer and commentator Scott Jennings, “Rights, Profit, Drama.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It’s been fascinating watching the reaction. My main sources for public opinion are the discussion thread on the LiveJournal WoW community and the comments to a terrific, thought-provoking post by veteran game designer and commentator Scott Jennings, “Rights, Profit, Drama.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mancilicious</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/23/rights-profit-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-23817</link>
		<dc:creator>Mancilicious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3652#comment-23817</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-23810&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-23810&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;robusticus&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
It is in their shareholders’ best interest to support the mod community, end of story.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Only when it makes them money each quarter. 

It&#039;s debatable whether the mod community does that or not. It could be argued, that supporting the mod community actually costs them more money in support costs than they would ever earn from it.

Personally, mods made me play Wow far longer than I normally would have. But its hard to equate my 2 months of extra retention against the cost of 6 support calls (assuming $5 dollars per call) for those same tools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="#commentbody-23810"><p>
<strong><a href="#comment-23810" rel="nofollow">robusticus</a> :</strong><br />
It is in their shareholders’ best interest to support the mod community, end of story.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Only when it makes them money each quarter. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s debatable whether the mod community does that or not. It could be argued, that supporting the mod community actually costs them more money in support costs than they would ever earn from it.</p>
<p>Personally, mods made me play Wow far longer than I normally would have. But its hard to equate my 2 months of extra retention against the cost of 6 support calls (assuming $5 dollars per call) for those same tools.</p>
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