F13 with the story of Cryptic using City of Heroes as a recruiting tool for Champions Online.
As I mentioned in the thread, pretty sure I remember Blizzard doing much the same in Everquest for WoW, but of course now with better community tools poaching your competitor’s client base becomes a bit easier!
#1 by Hudson on March 17th, 2009
I would jump at that in a second. Hey, Im easy what can I say. And Yes Blizzard took the top EQ raiding guilds to use as their content testers. Warhammer could have used a little of that, instead of the buggy, easily exploited crappy instances they came out with.
Besides CoH and CO are almost one and the same, only updated!
#2 by Arrakiv on March 17th, 2009
Well, I guess they developed CoH… But yeah, I’m not sure what to say about it. It is clearly an effective tool, but it also seems a bit unethical all the same. Like, if you own a store, you don’t walk into your competitors store and shout out “WE ARE BETTER! BUY OUR STUFF INSTEAD.”
Well, you could, but you’d be a jerk.
#3 by Daniel Whitcomb on March 17th, 2009
@Hudson
Hell, more than that, Blizzard took members of top EQ raiding guilds for their design teams.
#4 by Bonedead on March 17th, 2009
Well it worked for Blizzard, seems like a good idea to me (considering people who play CoH are pretty much their target audience anyway), so I say kudos to them.
#5 by jinstevens on March 17th, 2009
What a nasty thing to do to former co-workers / friends. Pretty much agree with the F13 post with the additional comment that it just makes CO look desperate. If they’re so confident that their product is better than why not just make a direct and open invitation for CoH players to join their beta?
#6 by Syp on March 17th, 2009
Erm… screenshot or it didn’t happen. Really. Why are we spreading around a possible rumor started by someone who claims to have “attempted” to validate this, without any proof that it even happened? Or that it’s coming from Cryptic?
Nah. It’s more fun just to gossip, I guess.
#7 by J. on March 17th, 2009
They can’t touch my awesome button.
#8 by Dave on March 17th, 2009
It definitely happened, Syp.
The more skeezy thing that happened here is that Cryptic used the COH message boards to contact players; Blizzard never used in-game communication; it used guild websites and message boards.
And of course Blizzard was never part of Sony Online…
#9 by Calandryll on March 17th, 2009
I’d like to think this isn’t true.
Minor point I suppose (or maybe not so minor), but the NCSoft/CoH User Agreement clearly states that solicitation is not allowed. It’s one thing when an individual breaks a EULA, but I’m curious what the impact of a company doing so is.
#10 by Syp on March 17th, 2009
I’m not saying it didn’t — I’m saying that I’ve yet to see any proof beyond one guy saying that it did. I’m not inclined to trust the good folks over at F13 for 100% fact checking their posts.
#11 by Brian 'Psychochild' Green on March 17th, 2009
In my icy-cold capitalist heart, as long as no laws or contracts are being violated, I’m not sure I see a problem here. Yes, it’s complicated by the fact that Cryptic made and subsequently sold off City of Heroes, but they’re poaching from pretty much the only other game of the same type out there.
It’s easier for Blizzard to get away with it because there were more fantasy based games. But, as people point out, they did directly recruit both designers and initial testers from EQ. And, guess what, it worked like a charm. I’m not sure I can fault Cryptic for going after a proven strategy, even if it isn’t necessarily playing nicely with a former business partner. (There may be a big reason why they’re a former business partner, too.)
#12 by Pacer Dawn on March 17th, 2009
I would think that if one is concerned with people flocking from their product to another, then they have bigger problems than just people misusing the intent of their messaging system.
#13 by squirrel on March 17th, 2009
The issue, outlined pretty good in the f13 thread at some length, isn’t competition. Hell, poach players, recruit guilds, advertise. All good stuff. But don’t use your competitors property to do it. That’s unethical. Why? Well there’s a simple rule: “If we all do this is it going to cause a net benefit or net loss for each of us?” This is a net loss. Advertising, promotions, email campaigns, incentives are all net benefits for ‘us’ (us being the marketers).
#14 by Arkenor on March 17th, 2009
There hasn’t really been a superhero genre MMO since CoH/CoV, and new content for it has been very slow (though the upcoming player-made content system looks fascinating, if rather limited. That’s inspired me to pop back for the first time in three years.) so the community there is pretty ripe for plundering.
I’m actually quite surprised it still has so many players, considering how shallow it is (though it IS fun), which I suspect comes down to the love of the genre. I see a lot of folks around with the 50 month veteran gear. I have a feeling the arrival of Champions is going to really hurt it.
#15 by UnSub on March 18th, 2009
Which particular proof do you want? I’ve posted the original forum PM that went out. All I’ve got left is an email from Diamonds that confirms it is a genuine offer and that they want key CoH/V community members and guild leaders. Will that do?
#16 by Cedia on March 18th, 2009
Pfft. Jack Emmert can kiss my lily white ass. I know I’m not the only one who is staying with CoX, regardless of how new and shiny Champions is. And here is just another reason.
#17 by Dan Gray on March 18th, 2009
In any situation involving two other games I’d say this was unethical and petty behavior at best. Given the relationship between Cryptic and NCSoft I think it is a downright disgrace.
You don’t go into a competitors product to advertise your own, especially not when you share the same market. As someone on the F13 thread said; It’s like Burger King going into McDonalds and giving out free Whopper coupons. I’m pretty sure they would be booted the fuck out and legal action would ensue.
The stupidest thing about all this is how it damages Cryptic’s appearance. Seeing them go back into a game they sold off to try and claw in customers for their new project just wreaks of desperation. Pathetic behavior.
#18 by Drakks on March 18th, 2009
If CoH is a good game, it will hold up. If not, it won’t. People still play the original EQ.
Competition is a bitch, to be sure, but it’s hard to argue that it doesn’t drive innovation.. and innovation benefits the players. I could care less about the people working on the game, beyond the point that I’m liberal and they are human beings – but this is true of any service I pay for.
#19 by EpicSquirt on March 18th, 2009
Damn, I wish they’d recruit me.
#20 by Einherjer on March 18th, 2009
“Competition is a bitch, to be sure, but it’s hard to argue that it doesn’t drive innovation”
What remains to be discovered is what kind of innovation?
Product Innovation?
Marketing Innovation?
Shady or Unethical strategy Innovation?
While I am all for competition, it’s no way a panacea for innovation and progress. There are a lot of breakthroughs that were attained via non-profit public funding research. Care for an example? The Interwebz
#21 by Drakks on March 18th, 2009
Product Innovation in the broadest since of ideas/concepts that make the game a more enjoyable/marketable/profitable experience — WoW taking EQ raiders *did* help to make the game the successful experience that it is for both the business behind it and the players continuing to play it (namely the two go hand in hand, but still). Were there other ways to do it? Sure, but the one they chose did work even if it was a cut-throat approach.
Competition does drive innovation and there is all sorts of proof, but I in no means said it was the only road to getting there.
#22 by numtini on March 18th, 2009
I could care less about the poaching aspect, it’s the company allegedly using in game spamming to do it that I find really unacceptable.
#23 by JuJutsu on March 18th, 2009
“There are a lot of breakthroughs that were attained via non-profit public funding research. Care for an example? The Interwebz”
Yup. Compared to the bad ole days the availability of porn has really improved. The production of snark has gone up exponentially as well
I’d go on but an amazing financial opportunity in Nigeria just showed up in my interwebz based email box.
#24 by DoubleD on March 18th, 2009
I’m confused, is this Viral marketing, Gorilla Marketing, or Lynch Pin marketing. All these hip new age thinking.
#25 by Angelworks on March 18th, 2009
From what I understand Blizzard contacted raiding guilds in EQ – outside of EQ which I think is perfectly fine.
#26 by Zuzax on March 18th, 2009
I will be incredibly surprised if Champions Online launches. Most of the player base was incredibly happy to see Jack leave, and the game has been better for it.
#27 by Muckbeast on March 19th, 2009
I definitely think this crosses the line because they are using CoX’s resources (message boards) to distribute the messages. They are knowingly and deliberately violating the terms of service to steal customers. That’s beyond the pale.
All they have to do is make a post somehwere that allows people to sign up for an instant beta invite if they can verify having an active, current CoX account. Not so hard.
It amazes me that such a bumbling, incompetent group of fools (CoX *and* CO) have total control of such a hugely popular genre – superheroes.
Dark Knight just passed $1 billion worldwide, and is 1 of only 4 movies to ever do so (the other 3 are Titanic, LOTR: Return of the King, and one of the Pirates of the Carribean Movies – I think the lastone). Iron Man, Hulk (the new one!), Spiderman, etc. are all blockbuster hits.
And here we have only one active games, sputtering incomptently with ~120,000 subs, and one other developer engaging in pretty disgusting tactics to try and sandbag them.
Amazing.
-Michael
#28 by geldonyetich on March 19th, 2009
Man, what makes him so special? Where’s my CoH private message offering me Champions Online beta access? I’ve had a beta app open with them for ages.
#29 by EpicSquirt on March 19th, 2009
@Muckbeast
Only because I saw Dark Knight and all the other movies you’ve mentioned doesn’t mean I want to play games based on the IP.
#30 by octopaganini on March 19th, 2009
Unsub gets validation: http://blog.wired.com/games/2009/03/cryptic-using-n.html
Good scoop, dude.
#31 by Muckbeast on March 19th, 2009
Epic, it does mean there are a lot of people who will.
Comic book sales are up 110% over the last 7 years. Super hero games do great on the console. Super hero movies do great. There’s no excuse for CoX having total control of the genre and sputtering by with 120,000 subs.
I’m not saying 120,000 subs doesn’t make for a successful business. Its just pretty disappointing when you have full ownership of a popular genre.