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	<title>Comments on: Eve Lead Designer: Drama Is Cool!</title>
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	<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/</link>
	<description>Random Comments About Games and Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: Kiler</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22820</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22820</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-22596&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Queso &lt;/a&gt; 

Jebus man, tone back on the assholeness. You make a lot of valid points but come off completely dickish and the attitude is one of the big reasons people hate with a passion hardcore PvPers.

The great thing about Eve is it really is a sandbox. You can pretty much do whatever you want within the game mechanics. Pretty much the main drive in the game is to aquire ISK (gold) and there&#039;s multiple routes to get that.

For the political landscape, it&#039;s usually slow to change but Band of Brothers was doing their MAX campaign for a while in the North and a few alliances fell. 

The main reason BoB held their space for so long is that no one was willing to go after them. A few years ago they were forced back in to just the Delve region due to sustained attacks on a few fronts but multiple alliances. If they were attacked in this manner again they would have been pushed back, regardless of a Director disbanding the alliance. Yes, for the most part combat doesn&#039;t make much of a difference, especially in small skirmishes, but those will lead to larger engagements when little resistance is met in key systems and the big guns come out and start dropping stations. 

Also, another nice thing is if someone pisses you off, you have the option of retribution, either by declaring War on their corporation, or hiring mercs to do the killing for you. In that case they aren&#039;t safe anywhere, even in PvE land.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-22596" rel="nofollow">@Queso </a> </p>
<p>Jebus man, tone back on the assholeness. You make a lot of valid points but come off completely dickish and the attitude is one of the big reasons people hate with a passion hardcore PvPers.</p>
<p>The great thing about Eve is it really is a sandbox. You can pretty much do whatever you want within the game mechanics. Pretty much the main drive in the game is to aquire ISK (gold) and there&#8217;s multiple routes to get that.</p>
<p>For the political landscape, it&#8217;s usually slow to change but Band of Brothers was doing their MAX campaign for a while in the North and a few alliances fell. </p>
<p>The main reason BoB held their space for so long is that no one was willing to go after them. A few years ago they were forced back in to just the Delve region due to sustained attacks on a few fronts but multiple alliances. If they were attacked in this manner again they would have been pushed back, regardless of a Director disbanding the alliance. Yes, for the most part combat doesn&#8217;t make much of a difference, especially in small skirmishes, but those will lead to larger engagements when little resistance is met in key systems and the big guns come out and start dropping stations. </p>
<p>Also, another nice thing is if someone pisses you off, you have the option of retribution, either by declaring War on their corporation, or hiring mercs to do the killing for you. In that case they aren&#8217;t safe anywhere, even in PvE land.</p>
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		<title>By: Freakazoid</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22649</link>
		<dc:creator>Freakazoid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22649</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-22636&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Queso &lt;/a&gt; 
You might find it hard to believe, but it is possible to have a valid opinion about MMOs despite not playing the game.

Oh, but if you still want to argue using logical fallacies, I have a good one for you: I get most of my information about eve from goons! :O</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-22636" rel="nofollow">@Queso </a><br />
You might find it hard to believe, but it is possible to have a valid opinion about MMOs despite not playing the game.</p>
<p>Oh, but if you still want to argue using logical fallacies, I have a good one for you: I get most of my information about eve from goons! :O</p>
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		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22644</link>
		<dc:creator>Longasc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22644</guid>
		<description>Queso, instead of &quot;doubting&quot; other persons with ad hominem arguments, feel free to go on what YOU do in your alliance and educate us  how the mechanics work. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Queso, instead of &#8220;doubting&#8221; other persons with ad hominem arguments, feel free to go on what YOU do in your alliance and educate us  how the mechanics work. <img src='http://brokentoys.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Queso</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22636</link>
		<dc:creator>Queso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22636</guid>
		<description>@Longasc

Did you ever do anything in your t2 Cruiser?  Cause I kind of doubt it.  You clearly have no idea on how the alliance mechanics work.

@Freakazoid

So someone claiming they know what they are talking, but dont.  heh    &lt;3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Longasc</p>
<p>Did you ever do anything in your t2 Cruiser?  Cause I kind of doubt it.  You clearly have no idea on how the alliance mechanics work.</p>
<p>@Freakazoid</p>
<p>So someone claiming they know what they are talking, but dont.  heh    &lt;3</p>
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		<title>By: Freakazoid</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22616</link>
		<dc:creator>Freakazoid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22616</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-22596&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Queso &lt;/a&gt; 
Wrong. 

(I never played eve :3)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-22596" rel="nofollow">@Queso </a><br />
Wrong. </p>
<p>(I never played eve :3)</p>
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		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22611</link>
		<dc:creator>Longasc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22611</guid>
		<description>It is Longasc, not SmallSac or LongSac. There is not need to be insulting.

Interesting that you feel the need to assume that I am both clueless and incompetent and whatever. Be assured, I have played EVE for years, having Tech II cruiser training and all that.

On the other hand, I can only make assumptions about your education and social competence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is Longasc, not SmallSac or LongSac. There is not need to be insulting.</p>
<p>Interesting that you feel the need to assume that I am both clueless and incompetent and whatever. Be assured, I have played EVE for years, having Tech II cruiser training and all that.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I can only make assumptions about your education and social competence.</p>
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		<title>By: Queso</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22596</link>
		<dc:creator>Queso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22596</guid>
		<description>LoL at all the people that think they know EvE when they never trained higher than Frigs III.

@Smallsac, You never roamed in nil sec at all in your eve career and I can tell.

Battles never decided by combat?  Excuse me, but wtf, are you talking about WoW Bg&#039;s?  Cause those dont mean jack.

Battles never decided by Strategy?  You have no understanding about gatecamping, covert ops, &quot;metagaming&quot;, Pos Warfare.

Battles never won by Economic Superiority?  Ever heard of a titan?  The ships that if you exchanged your ingame money would cost about as much as a Used Cadilliac in real money.

Eve actually reached its highest number of concurrent users in its gameworld that same weekend, and yeah I had a bunch of people get back into the game in my alliance that weekend after BoB was destoryed.

So Longsac, Please get off your high horse and shut your mouth, cause you have no idea what you are talking about please.

@Dartwick, Delve, looks pretty Yellow to me
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

@Vetarnias, No one said this game was for everyone.

@Freakaziod.  Yet another person who never left high sec.

@wins327, Well you could argue that this &quot;flaw&quot; in game design has been in the game since they added it(and that was years ago).  And this one time it actually did anything.  My current alliance is ran by my Corps CEO and only he would have the power to do this, not all the CEO&#039;s that are members.

if anything this is probably a good lesson for all alliances to review how their alliances are being ran.  I doubt CCP changes anything.

@Mike Darga, you are completly right, and infact thats why I love this game as you arnt stuck to doing just one thing.

@Geldonyetic, Dont you know, people love drama.  TNT has been marketing it for years.  But no other game Drama has such consequences, thats what makes it so great.

Anyway I just want to end my comment about how what makes eve so great, the sandbox play is also somewhat of a double edge sword.  I came from WoW to go play eve, and I think I was so used to how wow holds your hand and how you have to waste so much time for gear.

 In wow its pretty clear on what you need to do next, where in EvE its up to you, and I think people that are trained into the whole quest/grind thing its really hard for them to get out of that Paradigm.  Also, the PVE in EvE sucks, I wont lie.  Put its easy to tell by the changes that CCP is making that even they know that now.  The new rats have new AI, and they are adding Mission Arcs.

Put please, people that tried it out on a free trail and all you did was mine rocks, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to eve.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LoL at all the people that think they know EvE when they never trained higher than Frigs III.</p>
<p>@Smallsac, You never roamed in nil sec at all in your eve career and I can tell.</p>
<p>Battles never decided by combat?  Excuse me, but wtf, are you talking about WoW Bg&#8217;s?  Cause those dont mean jack.</p>
<p>Battles never decided by Strategy?  You have no understanding about gatecamping, covert ops, &#8220;metagaming&#8221;, Pos Warfare.</p>
<p>Battles never won by Economic Superiority?  Ever heard of a titan?  The ships that if you exchanged your ingame money would cost about as much as a Used Cadilliac in real money.</p>
<p>Eve actually reached its highest number of concurrent users in its gameworld that same weekend, and yeah I had a bunch of people get back into the game in my alliance that weekend after BoB was destoryed.</p>
<p>So Longsac, Please get off your high horse and shut your mouth, cause you have no idea what you are talking about please.</p>
<p>@Dartwick, Delve, looks pretty Yellow to me<br />
<a href="http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png" rel="nofollow">http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png</a></p>
<p>@Vetarnias, No one said this game was for everyone.</p>
<p>@Freakaziod.  Yet another person who never left high sec.</p>
<p>@wins327, Well you could argue that this &#8220;flaw&#8221; in game design has been in the game since they added it(and that was years ago).  And this one time it actually did anything.  My current alliance is ran by my Corps CEO and only he would have the power to do this, not all the CEO&#8217;s that are members.</p>
<p>if anything this is probably a good lesson for all alliances to review how their alliances are being ran.  I doubt CCP changes anything.</p>
<p>@Mike Darga, you are completly right, and infact thats why I love this game as you arnt stuck to doing just one thing.</p>
<p>@Geldonyetic, Dont you know, people love drama.  TNT has been marketing it for years.  But no other game Drama has such consequences, thats what makes it so great.</p>
<p>Anyway I just want to end my comment about how what makes eve so great, the sandbox play is also somewhat of a double edge sword.  I came from WoW to go play eve, and I think I was so used to how wow holds your hand and how you have to waste so much time for gear.</p>
<p> In wow its pretty clear on what you need to do next, where in EvE its up to you, and I think people that are trained into the whole quest/grind thing its really hard for them to get out of that Paradigm.  Also, the PVE in EvE sucks, I wont lie.  Put its easy to tell by the changes that CCP is making that even they know that now.  The new rats have new AI, and they are adding Mission Arcs.</p>
<p>Put please, people that tried it out on a free trail and all you did was mine rocks, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to eve.  Thanks.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mordur</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22492</link>
		<dc:creator>Mordur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22492</guid>
		<description>Thing is though that this happened because of leadership negligence. CCP has, and had before this, checks in place that can stop this from happening. It&#039;s a UI setting in the alliance that makes it so that it can&#039;t be disbanded without a majority vote.
But for whatever reason the BOB leaders didn&#039;t have this enabled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thing is though that this happened because of leadership negligence. CCP has, and had before this, checks in place that can stop this from happening. It&#8217;s a UI setting in the alliance that makes it so that it can&#8217;t be disbanded without a majority vote.<br />
But for whatever reason the BOB leaders didn&#8217;t have this enabled.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Muckbeast</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22423</link>
		<dc:creator>Muckbeast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22423</guid>
		<description>I really do not see how this can be considered anything more than simple, yet extreme griefing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really do not see how this can be considered anything more than simple, yet extreme griefing.</p>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/02/eve-lead-designer-drama-is-cool/comment-page-1/#comment-22414</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 06:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=3552#comment-22414</guid>
		<description>They kinda picked up the wrong lesson from it.  It wasn&#039;t that allowing people to undermine the progress of other players is a good thing because of the &quot;drama&quot; aspect.  It&#039;s that the standard EvE territory stalemate is so boring that having something disrupt it, even if it involved a massive loss of progress on behalf of the players, becomes preferable to having the typical nothing happening at all.

In other words, when the drama value exceeds the game value, that&#039;s a pretty good indicator of a &lt;i&gt;problem&lt;/i&gt; existing.  However, if they want to ride that problem as a feature, and it works to generate a profit, I guess I can&#039;t fault them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They kinda picked up the wrong lesson from it.  It wasn&#8217;t that allowing people to undermine the progress of other players is a good thing because of the &#8220;drama&#8221; aspect.  It&#8217;s that the standard EvE territory stalemate is so boring that having something disrupt it, even if it involved a massive loss of progress on behalf of the players, becomes preferable to having the typical nothing happening at all.</p>
<p>In other words, when the drama value exceeds the game value, that&#8217;s a pretty good indicator of a <i>problem</i> existing.  However, if they want to ride that problem as a feature, and it works to generate a profit, I guess I can&#8217;t fault them.</p>
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