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Five Things To Do In Altdorf When You’re Dead: What I Like About Warhammer
People might get the cursory impression, from reading my blog, that I like making fun of Mark Jacobs. This is, in fact, true! Duh. I mean, come on, I used to work for the guy. Tell me you wouldn’t mind poking fun of your ex-boss on the Internet when he wears goofy glasses during an interview. There are some temptations man was not meant to pass up. And of course, before that I wrote a lot of pointy things about Paul Barnett. This was mainly because, at a certain point, 87% of my Google Reader headlines were various permutations of “OMG I WANT TO HAVE THE BABIES OF THIS BLOKE THAT TALKS ABOUT SETTING HERETICS ON FIRE WITH A FUNNY ACCENT” and I like to be different.
That being said, people might also think I was turning into some sort of bitter detractor on the Internet of all things Mythic in general and Warhammer in specific who does nothing but posting bitchy notes about how your online game of choice turns you stabby and full of hatred. You could call such a collection of vitriol a… hm… maybe a “rant site”? That could work. And I’m sure they are out there! But I don’t really have experience with writing one of those, so in the meantime, I’m going to point out things I actually like about Warhammer and why.
And yes, there is another, darker, harsher list – but ironically, it’s shorter. Today we are THIMKIN POSITIVELY.
So: my list, of all things great and small, what other MMOs should take away from Warhammer.
Instant PVP. You can do the PvP thing immediately following character creation, and what’s more, not completely suck. Thanks to upranking you can sort-of kind-of contribute from level 1. Which is appropriate – the game still gives you a reason to level upward. The same applies to equipment – you gain access to a baseline of equipment through “renown gear” unlocked through PvP, but you’ll want to supplement it. And entering a “scenario” (instanced PvP battle) is as easy as clicking a big helpful logo button. No fuss, no muss, no running somewhere, you get teleported to a battle, then teleported back. Makes no sense from a fantasy immersion standpoint, but then again, neither do instanced battles, so whatever!
And most importantly, you can advance your character this way as well. You gain experience and money through simply competing in scenarios, and level-appropriate gear can drop from other players as well.
So in short, you’re not waiting on the “endgame” for the fun. The fun’s right there. This is HUGE. This is your takeaway. Get players into the fun bits quickly and they can see whether or not it’s for them. And if it is, they’ll stay. This is Warhammer’s greatest triumph – in a class/level/combat-centric MMO, the “you must be this high to enjoy yourself” signs have been removed from the amusement park.
Open groups. A lot of people (including at Mythic) talk about Public Quests as Warhammer’s big innovation. I’m going to disagree – as implemented, from what I can see, they aren’t that different from other quests, and have issues of scale when no one else is around to help in completing them.
However, it does leverage Warhammer’s grouping paradigm — where most games default to “closed groups” where you invite other people to your party, in Warhammer the default is for all groups to be open admittance, and you can just decide which party to crash. The game’s interface shows open parties in your area, and critically, how far away they are and what they are doing (be it public quest or open-world PvP). Click a group, and you’re in it. That simple.
Other games have had open groups, but critically, I think, Warhammer’s had them from day 1, built into the interface, so the game’s community has adopted them. The hit most designers make against open groups is that you are just a faceless mob, and this is for the most part true of groups that I’ve joined, but it isn’t always the case. I spent the better part of an evening on an RP server as an irritated Black Orc in an open group looking to kill as many people as I needed to to get a new choppa. (Because, hey, what else do Orcs look for in life?) This worked, partially because I was on an RP server where everyone believes themselves an actor, and it’s on the Greenskin side where all you have to do to be in character is talk like a British soccer hooligan.
Open groups encourage socialization, and in the long term draw people into guilds. And being part of the core game from the start instead of the result of various reactionary patches (such as WoW has seen) ensures community adoption.
I’m busy, and also, I’m dumb. No, really, I am. I don’t want to spend hours to figure out where something is. Warhammer understands this. I can pop open my map and it’ll tell me where I need to go to finish a quest. There are addons for WoW that do this – in Warhammer it’s inherently part of the game. It saves me the step of looking up online where I need to go to do something, which everyone does anyway, so acknowledging this is a good thing. No really, we can’t do everything. Have at it. Speaking of addons, Warhammer also has opened up their client scripting interface, and quite a few useful things have already been crafted up. This really needs to be a requirement from every game going forward – the client is how we interface with the game, and everyone tends to have different preferences with how all that information flows from server to eyeballs and fingertips.
Tome of Knowledge = Concentrated Awesome. What happens when you keep a quest journal in the basement, feed it the blood of pixies and write in it with the ink drawn from the tears of Nobel laureates? You get something much like the ToK, which effortlessly unlocks tons of backstory for wherever you are at any given moment, but in a very passive behind the scenes way so it isn’t just WALL OF TEXT IN YOUR FACE when you’re trying to play. It also steals very smartly from Xbox Achievements, giving you the Pavlovian ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED dialogues whenever you do… well, anything.
And yes, I spent half an hour on a character doing swan dives off a cliff, just so I could have AAAAAAHHHHH show up as a title under my name. Because it’s always key to get things exactly right.
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about 1 year ago
And I confidently predict that if any of those bits are as good as you say, we’ll see them turn up eventually as built-in features in WoW.
about 1 year ago
Wait a minute!
This isn’t a rant site? My world is turned upside down! Where can I to get my bitterness now? Why on earth do I subscribe?
Seriously, you nailed the things I like about WAR as well. I didn’t participate in DAoC’s RVR that much until after New Frontiers, but I was participating in WAR’s from level 1. I actually had some fun smashing stunties, emps, and those frail, pointy eared pincushions.
about 1 year ago
ooh, titles for falling deaths, wonder if they’re any different if you die from falling whilst naked.
I think that whole sentence above kinda sums up how much the Tome of Knowledge has crept into my brain…
Flimgoblin (Lady Godiva)
about 1 year ago
I think PQs are something different from regular quests, as they are a combination of PvE and PvP. Sure, you don’t directly fight people, but you compete against them at the same time as you cooperate with them.
They do have problems with scaling, though. Too many or too few people and they don’t really work.
about 1 year ago
ToK: Limit 20 quests, no quest organization, wall of book when you open it. Like the data, but you can’t multitask with it open. No group shared utility.
about 1 year ago
The reddish quest blobs on the map are perfect for exactly the reason you said. They strike a perfect balance between people like me (who like to explore, even if it means walking three zones past the guy I’m supposed to talk to) and people like my wife (Thottbot, coordinates, GO!).
In addition to being easy to get to, scenarios are great because A) they are designed to end and B) they are small.
Classes seem fairly balanced. For example, when my 16 War Priest fought a 16 Disciple of Khaine, neither of us could kill the other. We shrugged at each other and went off to quest side by side. It was like Mutually Assured Boredom kept aggressions in check.
about 1 year ago
Now, can you explain the mystery of continuously rerolling your “Lum” character?
That’s a SERIOUS case of altitis. You don’t just create alts, you even delete them before creating the next.
That’s far more interesting
about 1 year ago
90 days.
about 1 year ago
I have to agree ToK was pretty great. I did quit the game though, it had nothing really to do with the game, more to do with the community.
about 1 year ago
PQs suck. Too many of them, too widely spread out. Not enough reason to do them. Don’t scale to the number of players. I think the PQ thing will go down as the most overhyped useless feature in WAR, except where it’s implemented in certain aspects of the city siege process. This could be fixed.
I agree about open groups. It’s simple and it works. No good reason not to do this.
I don’t care much for the Tome of Knowledge. It’s there, sure, but why would I go looking through that instead of playing the game? Maybe if they made it available on the web, or something – I guess big fans of the Warhammer universe will find it more interesting.
Related to the ToK, I find the quest number limit completely asinine. Somebody needs to fix this. As many little bits of information they store in the database already, surely this isn’t some kind of technical limitation.
Map notes for quests are good. Even AoC does this, though – it’s only notable do to its absence from WoW.
Travel in this game is terrible. They really need to fix it.
Instant PvP – this is why I play the game. Even though I find many aspects of WAR (including combat) bland and uninspired, the fact that I’m encouraged to PvP from the beginning makes it all tolerable. For now.
about 1 year ago
I’ve been really excited and looking forward to WAR, but this is what I was waiting for before I took the leap. I wanted to know what Scott thought of it.
I am mostly relieved. Just the negative post to go, and if it’s not too bad I’ll be ready to commit.
about 1 year ago
Is atonement for that post you deleted? Or is it just making nice with MJ because he got all pouty about it?
about 1 year ago
Now if they would only fix the dearth of CTD’s I’ve been experiencing since the last patch.
about 1 year ago
The Tome of Knowledge is great.
It would be ten times greater if you could read it from a web browser, i.e. while not playing, at work, on an underpowered laptop, etc.
about 1 year ago
I don’t play WAR, but my brother does, and he never shuts up about it.
A few days ago while playing an alt, he had the misfortune of losing something like a dozen instance pvp matches in a row.
This was due to half his team being completely naked.
Unique titles can be pretty cool, but that’s almost as bad as wow players going afk in an instanced pvp zone.
Just another reason I decided to forego this game for a couple months.
about 1 year ago
You got AHHHHHHHH As well eh? I found the Orc starting area great for it. Spawn next to the Lobba’s, get thrown on the wall and jump off. Repeat as often as needed (Pancake at 50k!)
Anyway, great list and I think I agree with all of them. While WAR doesn’t feel completely finished yet, it’s utterly amazing so far.
about 1 year ago
I’m busy, and also, I’m dumb. No, really, I am. I don’t want to spend hours to figure out where something is. Warhammer understands this.
No, it doesn’t. Their in-game maps don’t show flightmasters, they don’t show villages, and they don’t show quest hubs. Not even the ones you just left 30 seconds ago.
If this is supposed to be the fog of war, then stop it, Mythic — getting lost isn’t fun. And if it isn’t supposed to be the fog of war (what on earth are you playing at?) then stop it, Mythic — getting lost isn’t fun.
about 1 year ago
not a huge fan of the open parties. would be nice if it defaulted to closed when you started one.
about 1 year ago
@ Rob
I actually liked getting lost in Everquest. Well, granted at the time of me being lost I didn’t enjoy it too much, but it makes it much more immersive to me than just being able to pop open a global positioning system and A* my way along the most efficient path to the winny shiny place.
I haven’t played EQ in about 6 years, but I can still visualise and remember my way around all of the places I went, including the dungeons. I could still lead people through lower guk and trak. That’s kind of cool, in a really geeky way.
If I just plodded mechanically along with a GPS, I doubt that the exploration part of the game would be near as memorable.
So anyway… getting lost is fun for some, yet unfair for some others. I guess maps are okay, but I think people should have to work at least a little bit in getting to know the “world” one is supposed to be inhabiting.
about 1 year ago
Rob: You might want to play with map filters then?
At absolute worse, since the map is very GPS-ish, you can just take a glance at the map when you’re at a town and you’ll see exactly where it is on the map. However, I’ve noticed that with their design of zones – which are really linear – that even if I haven’t uncovered parts of the map yet, I can still pretty much tell where each warcamp is. Then again, that can vary by zone.
about 1 year ago
Apache:
You can set it to closed by default when you start one. It’s in the party options where you set the loot method. Nice little checkbox. I think that’s where it is anyway.. I’m at work and can’t verify, but I know the option is there.
Nice review, Lum. Hits a lot of good (and bad) points.
about 1 year ago
“Speaking of addons, Warhammer also has opened up their client scripting interface, and quite a few useful things have already been crafted up. This really needs to be a requirement from every game going forward – the client is how we interface with the game, and everyone tends to have different preferences with how all that information flows from server to eyeballs and fingertips.”
If you do this, aren’t you just inviting BOTing and exploiting? Ashron’s Call had open client scripting and a ton of BOTing (it was legal in AC)*. There was also tons of exploiting of bugs (also legal)*. Wow has a closed client but had all those problems with Glide and speed hacks. I’m just not seeing how you can open the client while “the client is in the hands of the enemy.” Please enlighten me.
* Turbine / MS took the view that if they left a bug in the code, it was not the players’ responsibility to avoid it.
about 1 year ago
maybe a “rant site”? That could work. And I’m sure they are out there! But I don’t really have experience with writing one of those
Alzheimer? Lum-the-not-so-mad-any-more? Or just being humble? Anyway, I laughed.
about 1 year ago
I like the PvP variety scenario variety. Right out of the gate, you have a divergence of PvP styles that took WoW years to figure out and that WAR does better.
Tug-of-war style (Gates of Ekrund): flags are arranged in a rough line, with a central flag and two anchor flags. Respawns enter typically by way of endpoint flag and conflict exists in the center.
Whoever holds their healers’ rally point between the closest and center flags usually wins.
King-of-the-hill style (Nordenwatch): flags are arranged in a triangle. Respawns enter near a close flag, and roughly equadistant from the other two.
Winning can be done by a large force holding the center and/or a small force interrupting incoming respawns.
Unique (Khaine’s Embrace): two close flags, linked by several approaches, each once roughly the same distance from each other as from respawn areas of each side. Either side must capture both flags to score points. When one side holds both flags for more then ten seconds, the flags explode in a wide radius for fatal damage and reset to neutral.
Winning requires enough defensive organization to defend one flag while attacking the other, and a sense of timing to avoid the exploding flags while being ready to recapture them when they turn neutral. It also requires enough offensive organization to be able to rush a seized flag yet know when to flee to avoid the blast.
That much diversity in something low-tier is unusual and refreshing. It shows a responsiveness towards accomodating people who would otherwise play twinks, a playstyle that appeals to long-term players but tends to keep newer players away from PvP.
about 1 year ago
“If you do this, aren’t you just inviting BOTing and exploiting? Ashron’s Call had open client scripting and a ton of BOTing (it was legal in AC)*. There was also tons of exploiting of bugs (also legal)*. Wow has a closed client but had all those problems with Glide and speed hacks. I’m just not seeing how you can open the client while “the client is in the hands of the enemy.” Please enlighten me.”
You answered your own question. The client is ALREADY in the hands of the enemy. People who want to bot and hack do not need you to open up the client to them, because they’re just doing it on the level of changing memory directly, changing incoming and outgoing packets directly, etc.
You don’t protect yourself from hacks and bots by burying your head in the sand and pretending that if a computer illiterate noob can’t figure out a way to exploit, you’re safe. You protect yourself by assuming everyone is an expert programmer who wants to cheat in every and any possibly way they can.
If information is going to be available to your client at all, you might as well make it available to all via an open client. If there is information that can’t be made available like this without breaking the game, that’s a pretty good sign that information shouldn’t be getting passed to the client in the first place.
about 1 year ago
On topic:
Being able to jump directly into scenarios from the moment you enter the world is awesome.
Being able to earn XP, coin, and items through any and all PvP is also awesome.
This is one of the few things about WAR that WOW is going to blatantly rip off, because it’s so awesome.
about 1 year ago
But did you jump off the cliff naked?
I got stuck in a Stone Troll Crossing scenario, everyone got booted at the end but me, so I took off my clothes and jumped off the center column over and over for about a half hour, trying to see what I could unlock. It was a lot of fun.
about 1 year ago
Nice article. As a side note, you may have soccer hooligans in other parts of the world but in Britain we most definitely have *football* hooligans.
about 1 year ago
I didn’t enjoy WAR enough to go through with actually buying it, but I agree that points 1, 2, 4 and 5 are all fine features.
Not 100% sure about the marking of quest destinations on the map, on one hand it feels like a step into trivializing the game, but on the other, as you say, people will just use addons to get this ease anyway, so why not make it available to everyone?
about 1 year ago
Hmmm. I have a couple of issues with what you’ve written. Disclaimer: I play and like WAR.
Instant PvP: Please see Guild Wars for instantly accessible PvP where level doesn’t matter and skill > play time.
Open groups: agree here.
Busy and dumb: Seriously? I hate quests like this. All new MMO’s do them, and I find it boring as hell. I only quest in very early levels to get the first few ‘dings’, and now I never take new quests when entering an area.
Modding: Seems pretty standard already.
Tome of Knowledge: I wouldn’t say concentrated awesome, so much as kind of nice. Definitely an improvement on previous games, but not revoutionary by any stretch of the word (and only limited to one page of quests, grrrr).