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	<title>Comments on: Hellgate: Korea</title>
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	<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/</link>
	<description>Random Comments About Games and Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: David E.</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14729</link>
		<dc:creator>David E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14729</guid>
		<description>Seeing that the Producers are quitting...


Can we get their stuff?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeing that the Producers are quitting&#8230;</p>
<p>Can we get their stuff?</p>
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		<title>By: gawain</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14728</link>
		<dc:creator>gawain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14728</guid>
		<description>the forums come down today apparently. You know, as much as I hated HG:L it always makes me sad to witness the death of a game.  Its depressing. Like, that world, crappy as it was, is dying, and soon to disappear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the forums come down today apparently. You know, as much as I hated HG:L it always makes me sad to witness the death of a game.  Its depressing. Like, that world, crappy as it was, is dying, and soon to disappear.</p>
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		<title>By: Brask Mumei</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14727</link>
		<dc:creator>Brask Mumei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14727</guid>
		<description>I spent years playing UO where the majority of my &quot;content&quot; came from other players.  I think MMORPGs are services - providing the servers and world for you to play in.  The problem is the DikuMud approach leads to players seeing it as a candy-dispenser so start to get antsy if they don&#039;t get new candy, having never found a way to entertain themselves without being spoonfed.

This is the old user vs company generated content argument, however.  Just remember user content isn&#039;t just new shield textures with phallic symbols on them.  User content is also things like guilds, friends, and auction houses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent years playing UO where the majority of my &#8220;content&#8221; came from other players.  I think MMORPGs are services &#8211; providing the servers and world for you to play in.  The problem is the DikuMud approach leads to players seeing it as a candy-dispenser so start to get antsy if they don&#8217;t get new candy, having never found a way to entertain themselves without being spoonfed.</p>
<p>This is the old user vs company generated content argument, however.  Just remember user content isn&#8217;t just new shield textures with phallic symbols on them.  User content is also things like guilds, friends, and auction houses.</p>
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		<title>By: Turlow</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14726</link>
		<dc:creator>Turlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14726</guid>
		<description>CountNerfedalot said,
&quot;Why should this be different for MMO’s from any other subscription product? Like, say, cable TV, internet access, a newspaper or magazine, telephone, etc? None of these give you anything much different from one month to the next (and it they do, they almost always raise the subscription price!), yet I’ve never heard of anyone dropping those subscriptions in a funk because they didn’t get anything new this month.&quot;

First, I don&#039;t think ISP, TelCos and cable companies work for an analogy.  I do not expect content from these providers.  I only expect a service.  For example, I do expect to receive daily phone calls from my TelCo.  I want phone service but I do not want phone content supplied by the TelCo.  I include cable companies in this group because I do not believe every cable company is owned by a media conglomerate that can create content as well as supply cable service.  ISPs are the same way.  They allow you to connect to the internet but they do not create nor control the content on the internet.

Secondly, I feel newspapers and magazines, which you brought up, work as analogies completely opposite how you used them.  Do you get the same news everyday from your paper?  Are your magazines carrying the same articles they did last month?  I bet they aren&#039;t!  Readers expect new content every issue and to stay in business, these companies must actively generate content.  Game companies supply content as part of their product.  When that content begins running out for subscribers the company has the choice of generating more content or losing their customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CountNerfedalot said,<br />
&#8220;Why should this be different for MMO’s from any other subscription product? Like, say, cable TV, internet access, a newspaper or magazine, telephone, etc? None of these give you anything much different from one month to the next (and it they do, they almost always raise the subscription price!), yet I’ve never heard of anyone dropping those subscriptions in a funk because they didn’t get anything new this month.&#8221;</p>
<p>First, I don&#8217;t think ISP, TelCos and cable companies work for an analogy.  I do not expect content from these providers.  I only expect a service.  For example, I do expect to receive daily phone calls from my TelCo.  I want phone service but I do not want phone content supplied by the TelCo.  I include cable companies in this group because I do not believe every cable company is owned by a media conglomerate that can create content as well as supply cable service.  ISPs are the same way.  They allow you to connect to the internet but they do not create nor control the content on the internet.</p>
<p>Secondly, I feel newspapers and magazines, which you brought up, work as analogies completely opposite how you used them.  Do you get the same news everyday from your paper?  Are your magazines carrying the same articles they did last month?  I bet they aren&#8217;t!  Readers expect new content every issue and to stay in business, these companies must actively generate content.  Game companies supply content as part of their product.  When that content begins running out for subscribers the company has the choice of generating more content or losing their customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Ogrin</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14725</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Ogrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 03:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14725</guid>
		<description>Last week the Daily Show was all reruns and I was like omg what???  This is old!  Point being, if all your examples gave up creating new content, people would be very cranky indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last week the Daily Show was all reruns and I was like omg what???  This is old!  Point being, if all your examples gave up creating new content, people would be very cranky indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: CountNerfedalot</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14708</link>
		<dc:creator>CountNerfedalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 01:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14708</guid>
		<description>quote: &quot;One big question that most people would ask were this any other type of product is: “What am I getting with this version of your product?” or “Why should I re-sub for another month/3mo./6mo.?”. &quot;

Why should this be different for MMO&#039;s from any other subscription product?  Like, say, cable TV, internet access, a newspaper or magazine, telephone, etc?  None of these give you anything much different from one month to the next (and it they do, they almost always raise the subscription price!), yet I&#039;ve never heard of anyone dropping those subscriptions in a funk because they didn&#039;t get anything new this month.

I was about to argue against one of my own examples (cable TV) on the basis of needing to see new content to keep subscribed, but aside from The Daily Show, I haven&#039;t seen any really new content on TV in ages.  That would be a bit less true if we got HBO, but then it would also be a good deal more expensive. :/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>quote: &#8220;One big question that most people would ask were this any other type of product is: “What am I getting with this version of your product?” or “Why should I re-sub for another month/3mo./6mo.?”. &#8221;</p>
<p>Why should this be different for MMO&#8217;s from any other subscription product?  Like, say, cable TV, internet access, a newspaper or magazine, telephone, etc?  None of these give you anything much different from one month to the next (and it they do, they almost always raise the subscription price!), yet I&#8217;ve never heard of anyone dropping those subscriptions in a funk because they didn&#8217;t get anything new this month.</p>
<p>I was about to argue against one of my own examples (cable TV) on the basis of needing to see new content to keep subscribed, but aside from The Daily Show, I haven&#8217;t seen any really new content on TV in ages.  That would be a bit less true if we got HBO, but then it would also be a good deal more expensive. :/</p>
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		<title>By: nerd gone bad</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14707</link>
		<dc:creator>nerd gone bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14707</guid>
		<description>So are we gonna start calling MMO Game Designers Snake-oil Salesmen anytime soon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So are we gonna start calling MMO Game Designers Snake-oil Salesmen anytime soon?</p>
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		<title>By: Ashendarei</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14709</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashendarei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14709</guid>
		<description>This only reinforces my belief that poor communication with your playerbase (even in a controlled setting) is a BIG nail to put in your proverbial coffin.  This has never been truer then in MMOs where you (the company) are re-selling your product to your customers on a monthly basis.

One big question that most people would ask were this any other type of product is: &quot;What am I getting with this version of your product?&quot; or &quot;Why should I re-sub for another month/3mo./6mo.?&quot;.  Sadly however I&#039;ve seen MMOs trend away from answering these questions in favor of a few other combined factors that are substantially easier and require less time/energy (but aren&#039;t as good for the game overall).

1. Anticipation:  While this is ALWAYS a good selling point,  it loses its value if the target audience doesn&#039;t have something specific to anticipate.  (using WoW as an example) Praying and hoping that  is getting a major buff / fix with the next patch is nowhere near as benificial as when there is offical notes saying &quot;class &quot;X&quot; is getting  improvements in this up and coming patch&quot;.

2. Addiction:  lets face it, MMOs can be quite addicting.  Add in the relative inexpensive cost to play (one night out at the movies w/ my girlfriend + dinner costs me about the same as 4 months of an MMO) and you have an easily self-justifiable reason to spend plenty of time playing said game.

3. Ignoring the customer base:  A PERFECT example of this is Blizzard and World of Warcraft.  Their forums are a complete cesspit,  due both to shoddy moderation and uncaring higher-ups, yet some people still come there with good suggestions and very workable ideas, yet the general feel amongst the playerbase is that they (Blizzard) doesn&#039;t care and that their opinions or ideas don&#039;t matter.

I had heard some pretty good things about HG:L but FPS games aren&#039;t really up my alley.  Mythos on the other hand ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This only reinforces my belief that poor communication with your playerbase (even in a controlled setting) is a BIG nail to put in your proverbial coffin.  This has never been truer then in MMOs where you (the company) are re-selling your product to your customers on a monthly basis.</p>
<p>One big question that most people would ask were this any other type of product is: &#8220;What am I getting with this version of your product?&#8221; or &#8220;Why should I re-sub for another month/3mo./6mo.?&#8221;.  Sadly however I&#8217;ve seen MMOs trend away from answering these questions in favor of a few other combined factors that are substantially easier and require less time/energy (but aren&#8217;t as good for the game overall).</p>
<p>1. Anticipation:  While this is ALWAYS a good selling point,  it loses its value if the target audience doesn&#8217;t have something specific to anticipate.  (using WoW as an example) Praying and hoping that  is getting a major buff / fix with the next patch is nowhere near as benificial as when there is offical notes saying &#8220;class &#8220;X&#8221; is getting  improvements in this up and coming patch&#8221;.</p>
<p>2. Addiction:  lets face it, MMOs can be quite addicting.  Add in the relative inexpensive cost to play (one night out at the movies w/ my girlfriend + dinner costs me about the same as 4 months of an MMO) and you have an easily self-justifiable reason to spend plenty of time playing said game.</p>
<p>3. Ignoring the customer base:  A PERFECT example of this is Blizzard and World of Warcraft.  Their forums are a complete cesspit,  due both to shoddy moderation and uncaring higher-ups, yet some people still come there with good suggestions and very workable ideas, yet the general feel amongst the playerbase is that they (Blizzard) doesn&#8217;t care and that their opinions or ideas don&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>I had heard some pretty good things about HG:L but FPS games aren&#8217;t really up my alley.  Mythos on the other hand &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Flagshipped.com</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14712</link>
		<dc:creator>Flagshipped.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14712</guid>
		<description>Finally, a response from Flagship Studios! Limited details are provided, but at least it&#039;s something. I&#039;m just glad to hear any kind of a response. Though it does seem changes are on the way for &quot;all&quot; that subscriber content. If FSS does end up, long-term, continuing to provide/own Hellgate, it&#039;s just a waiting game to see what changes are made with the profit model.

While the announcements from HanabitSoft, couple days ago, flat out says, they&#039;re going to be making their own content for Hellgate / own the IP. Which may or may not have something directly due to all the layoffs at FSS. What would be really nice, and possibly even win/win for anyone, is if FSS and HanabitSoft both retained (or gained) rights to the point of each being able to take the game in different directions and actually so. Could only be a lesser chance of  if two very different flavors of HGL came out. Hellgate: London Asia and Hellgate: London (FSS). Would be fitting what with HGL being the bastard son of a Roguelike.

http://wwww.flagshipped.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, a response from Flagship Studios! Limited details are provided, but at least it&#8217;s something. I&#8217;m just glad to hear any kind of a response. Though it does seem changes are on the way for &#8220;all&#8221; that subscriber content. If FSS does end up, long-term, continuing to provide/own Hellgate, it&#8217;s just a waiting game to see what changes are made with the profit model.</p>
<p>While the announcements from HanabitSoft, couple days ago, flat out says, they&#8217;re going to be making their own content for Hellgate / own the IP. Which may or may not have something directly due to all the layoffs at FSS. What would be really nice, and possibly even win/win for anyone, is if FSS and HanabitSoft both retained (or gained) rights to the point of each being able to take the game in different directions and actually so. Could only be a lesser chance of  if two very different flavors of HGL came out. Hellgate: London Asia and Hellgate: London (FSS). Would be fitting what with HGL being the bastard son of a Roguelike.</p>
<p><a href="http://wwww.flagshipped.com" rel="nofollow">http://wwww.flagshipped.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Drey</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/11/hellgate-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-14710</link>
		<dc:creator>Drey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/?p=2671#comment-14710</guid>
		<description>A COMPANY IS AT STEAK!

Moral imperative, had to be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A COMPANY IS AT STEAK!</p>
<p>Moral imperative, had to be done.</p>
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