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Burning Of An Entirely Different Type
Wow, this is not the kind of thing you want to be telling your playerbase.
I gave up on AoC after my initial month expired, but more from the high system requirements beating me into submission than anything else (my PC, to be fair, is 3 to 4 years old). Looks like it was a good thing I have a hard time playing female characters, though.
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about 2 years ago
And yet they still haven’t commented on the patch that made grey elite mobs twenty levels lower that your character kick your ass.
about 2 years ago
I was more disappointed over the boobie size reduction a while back. Did they ever fix that?
about 2 years ago
So far I have not been able to even notice a difference in that issue, so I guess it doesn’t bother me. And yes, they did fix the breast size issue, Thanks be to Crom!
about 2 years ago
“And yet they still haven’t commented on the patch that made grey elite mobs twenty levels lower that your character kick your ass.”
Oh, did they patch in the Anarchy Online 12.6 patch by mistake?
about 2 years ago
They explained the elite thing.. not sure what you’re talking about there.
I will say that not since DAoC have I had as much fun in an MMO, and that’s an odd thing. I mean sure, class balance is a joke and there are bugs that make you wonder if Funcom is asleep at the wheel.. and yea, not since Crysis have I had system resources brutalized in a similar fashion, but when I log in and the game works, I have a good time. The pve leveling is as enjoyable process to me, and the combat system is interesting and at least a new shade of gray.
I hope they do fix AoC up and get it running where it should be, and if they do I’ll certainly hang around a while.. if they don’t, that’s okay too. I’ll leave when I’m done content in the fact that I did, at least, have fun while playing and stopped when that ceased to happen.
about 2 years ago
I posted about this when Sharum first started commenting – it was interesting watching his reactions.
http://www.mmorpg-info.org/age-of-conan/you-hit-like-a-girl/
I think I’ll wait to see if he loses his temper again before updating.
about 2 years ago
The difference in swing time is noticeable, but it’s not like the game is unplayable with a female model. From what I’ve read, it seems that your damage scales up with swing time, so the penalty is largely in slower combo execution as opposed to less white damage.
What’s odd is that they took so long to acknowledge this bug, and even now we’re looking at another month or so before they get around to fixing it. Really, guys? I’d have to think this would be pretty high on the priority list.
about 2 years ago
I could probably be stoned in the street for saying this, but… why do the sexes have to be equal? Leave women with lower damage and give them a defense/avoidance boost over males. Women, quicker but weaker; men, stronger but get hit more.
about 2 years ago
“……… and give them a defense/avoidance boost over males.”
Isn’t that what the breasts are for?
about 2 years ago
This is simply system design being very wrong. It’s not possible that they made combat mechanics depend on animations. It is as wrong and silly as making DPS dependent on lag or CPU speed.
In WoW for example animations often “catch up” if there are more things going on, first come the hard numbers, then the animations as best effort to match.
By the way, how the hell can the server be aware of animation speed? If it’s a number it should be easily fixed. Or they give more priority to animation synch than DPS?
about 2 years ago
penis goes where?
about 2 years ago
I just want every one to read jason’s post and then Recursion’s post, that is just over the line funny!!! Thanks Recursion, I think you just invented a new internet terms for “Breast Plate”.
about 2 years ago
“……… and give them a defense/avoidance boost over males.”
“Isn’t that what the breasts are for?”
No, distraction.
Your fumble your attack. You saw side boob.
about 2 years ago
Thou shall not pay a monthly fee to play MMRPGs.
Happy paid beta testing!
about 2 years ago
Drakks, they “explained” the elite thing by having two devs simultaneously posting that 1) it was a bug, and 2) it was not a bug. Yes, you read that correctly.
Also, there is a 200+ thread on the US forums about it with no comment from Funcom past page 157 saying “we’re gathering feedback”. Funcom has closed the counterpart on the European forum. http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=85317
The kicker is, this change was completely undocumented. Does Funcom hold the record for an undocumented core game-changing mechanic while their customers are still in the free 30 days stage? Yeah, that’s why hubby and I cancelled, even though we liked playing the game. If this went through, what the hell is next?
about 2 years ago
They pretty much said it was done to avoid spawn camping within public locations — or maybe I’m not clear about the specific issue you’re referencing.
At 80, I know I’m not soloing instanced elites any longer because they scale with my level now, regardless of listed level, per the patch notes I was referencing. Outdoor elites are still soloable though as normal.
My assumption was it being a play off of associated quests — if the mob is a group listed quest, you won’t be soloing him after that patch.
about 2 years ago
Please link to me the patch notes that explained that group quests were no longer soloable at any level. I’m dying to see it.
So what is the point of the mentoring system now? And what is the point of group content when players are only given a small window of time in which to do it?
For a game that is low on content already, wow, that’s really an… interesting… move.
about 2 years ago
It may just be the built-in political correctness on my part, but I did a double-take when they went on to describe “straight, white” damage. Was the damage in question also raised with traditional Christian values?
about 2 years ago
I’m assuming simply adding a new “gender multiplier” (x1.0 for the guys and x1.05 for the gals) is not possible.
If, however, I’ve assumed incorrectly, I invite FunCom to pay me at normal consulting rates.
about 2 years ago
=========
July 1, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I could probably be stoned in the street for saying this, but… why do the sexes have to be equal? Leave women with lower damage and give them a defense/avoidance boost over males. Women, quicker but weaker; men, stronger but get hit more.
=========
I swear in the 80s I played a couple games where there were differences if you picked a male over a female. strength vs dex or something. While it does add flavor to choices between the sexes, it’s no longer “PC” anymore
about 2 years ago
*grumble*
The manual clearly states that gender differences were cosmetic only. The community bod confirmed that there should be no difference between male and female characters of the same class. The lower damage was not intended. Complaining about that (and having to prove it) is not unreasonable. I think it’s a bit unfair to call that “PC” (I presume the quotes are derogatory) or even to claim that those unhappy about this want the sexes to be equal.
about 2 years ago
It’s like deja-vu all over again!
AoC is not the first MMO to tie combat calculations to animation frames. AC did the same, and had problems balancing things as a result as well. Another pain in the AC system was that every key on the keyboard did *something*, often involving an animation, so if you started typing a message to someone but weren’t in chat “mode”, your character did a stupid litlle “chat dance” playing out all the commands you just typed, and there was NO way to stop/interrupt it! Also, I vaguely recall reports of hackers modifying their client to reduce animation frames thus speeding up their combat, but that might have been Diablo = it’s been awhile and the ole brain cells don’t always work right on the memory fetch anymore.
The shameful thing about this whole debacle is that, once again, the company was waay too slow. Too slow to start investigating the rumors (which were started in Beta). Too slow to run a simple test to see what the damage numbers looked like over time, even after the alarming results of such a test became public knowledge. Too slow to acknowledge that there actually WAS a serious problem. Too slow to confirm that they WERE going to fix it. And too slow to actually fix it. Only the last item, how long it will take to fix, is even partially out of their direct control, the blame for all the other failures lies directly on Funcom.
Classic corporate bunker mentality. When faced with an unavoidable “issue” that’s going to make the company at the very least, as well as some individuals most likely, look bad, everyone clams up. Nobody is willing to publicly admit *anything* until the issue is understood and a complete solution is not only known but approved, scheduled, and in the works, AND the public response has been polished by Marketing, approved by Legal, and signed-off by The Man. Meanwhile, rumors fly, conspiracy theories abound, and customers get really really pissed off at the stonewalling.
Hmm. I wonder if Sanya has any pithy comments on this fiasco?
about 2 years ago
While I have cancelled my AoC subscription for a variety of reasons (though just as Mr. Jennings, system performance was one of the main ones), and while I never played a female character, I am rather perplexed by this difference in damage according to character gender in AoC.
I have no doubt that the mistake, if we can call it that, is completely unintentional, though we can wonder why the issue was not openly addressed earlier since it was apparently detected in beta. Nonetheless, the real problem, in my mind at least, is that this discrepancy takes place in Age of Conan, a game which extensively relies on the objectification of women for its flavour (probably derived from its comic-book pedigree rather than R.E. Howard’s stories), and in which said objectification is treated with an uneasy level of casualness (such as one quest in which our hero must substitute the blood of a virgin with that of a prostitute to make a spell go awry). If there is one woman NPC in the game who could face the slightest risk of being turned down by a modelling agency (apart from that prophet lady in the starting village who would probably be dismissed on account of her age), I have yet to encounter her.
It is the combination of those factors, instead of just a stand-alone slower-attack bug, which makes me uneasy about both the bug and the game.
about 2 years ago
“By the way, how the hell can the server be aware of animation speed? If it’s a number it should be easily fixed. Or they give more priority to animation synch than DPS?”
Apparently the server is taking orders from the client. If this is true, the female DPS bug is by far the least of the problems they’re going to have. Can you say “rampant hacking?” Some one break out the Fourzors Hallies and wake up Ronald McDonald. It’s about to get old school up in here.
Funcom: Putting the “Ow” in “Ameteur Hour.”
about 2 years ago
Grey elite mobs is easy to explain, it was used to farm gold by higher level players. It was not good for the in game economy. The amount you got was scaled towards that there was a group splitting it. It wasn’t said outright, but it was obvious enough. The patch notes simply said that evasive bonus and damage bonus would no longer be scaled by level for elite mobs.
While it is annoying that there is a difference in damage, you can’t really challenge the decision to base it on animations. AoC does not have the same combat as other mmorpg’s, it calculates damage based on contact. If I swing my 2h sword, it will hit everyone it swings through, meaning it have to take animation into account. You could remove that feature, but that would mean you would remove one of the most enjoyable parts in AoC, the combat system.
about 2 years ago
The server doesn’t know about animation speed… but the client does, and a new attack does not initiate until after the previous animation is complete.
As for the manual stating that there would not be differences between the sexes except cosmetics… the solution becomes even easier. “The manual predates certain design decisions and updates to it were accidentally overlooked. The manual will be corrected.”
about 2 years ago
The reason not to have any differences between Female and Male players has nothing to do with “PC”ness. It has to do with customization. For it to be a free choice to play a male or female character, the choice must not have any direct gameplay implications. Otherwise people will feel pressured to select the gender that maximizes their playstyle rather than the gender they prefer to play as.
Consider if the Name had gameplay implications – names starting with A are good fighters and Z good mages with a blend inbetween. This would frustrate those trying create Zurkal the Orc Fighter. You’d also see a lot of Ajoe and Zjoe as people wanting to be named Joe subvert the rules.
Diablo II, for example, had extremely radical differences between male and female characters. This was, however, because they tied class choice to gender choice to minimize their art work requirements. It is interesting to note one of the “features” of Diablo III is the ability to select gender freely – clearly players don’t appreciate having to pick between their desired gender and their desired class.
about 2 years ago
If I swing my 2h sword, it will hit everyone it swings through, meaning it have to take animation into account.
No. The server doesn’t “see” graphics. It probably can see positioning, though, so know who you can hit when you swing.
It’s not the graphic model of the sword knowing what it hits.
about 2 years ago
I think there’s a small (1-deep?) clientside queue of actions. The client probably doesn’t send the next action in the queue to the server until the animation for the current action finishes.
about 2 years ago
Cedia –
Apologies, you’re absolutely right. Guess I totally made that up in my head. I can’t find reference to it in any of the old patch notes.
about 2 years ago
“I’m assuming simply adding a new “gender multiplier” (x1.0 for the guys and x1.05 for the gals) is not possible.”
I think each animation has a different length, so any multipliers would need to be on a per-ability basis. It would require code and data format changes, and a lifetime of misery to maintain in the future. What they’re pursuing looks like a completely code-free solution, presumably because they don’t have any code time to spare (and because they don’t want the headache of maintaining the additional data).
about 2 years ago
PVP Guild recruiting….must be male!
LFM Sanctum, must be male!
This issue really pissed me off.
about 2 years ago
And ill copy my comment from the original thread as no one else seems to have solid numbers.
“How about 200+ dps difference at lvl 80 (which is around 25-30% difference) than the male characters?
Yes there is a dps meter, yes there is a place you can upload logs to see who does what in a ‘raid’. We did measure it and it’s particularly depressing as a female dps class that’s for sure. Me and another person are almost identically equipped doing the same job but I come far far behind him.
Along with a few other major bugs in the end game, really this is what forced me to quit, I’m not going to roll another class or gender and level to 80 just because funcom are stupid to know this would make a difference. Hell this was reported back in BETA about 2 months before release and still wasn’t looked at.”
about 2 years ago
Yeah, I’m not sold on their “just wait a month or so” solution either. They need to come up with an immediate solution and patch in the real solution later.
about 2 years ago
I wonder if the lead AOC producer/developer is addicted to opium too.
This could explain things.
about 2 years ago
Why are you all so surprised that Funcom fucked up so badly and is STILL making a bollocks over the whole thing? They have been responsible for one of the worst initial release EVAR for Anarchy Online!
I’m just a bit amazed that AO actually recovered from the debacle (you can survive bad releases it would seem) and Funcom actually landed a big(..ish) IP like Conan. Nevertheless, it is wishful thinking indeed to think that the leopard has changed its spots to any degree. People are just blinded by fervent hope that the Conan IP will succeed and there will be another million+ contender in the MMO market. But this is Funcom you’re dealing with ~ kinda wish someone would drag out the old entries from the AO release from the old LtM archives. Amazing dev “crash and burn” stuff.
about 2 years ago
I was really excited about AoC early in the development phase; it seemed to have a bold vision for PvP that was sorely lacking in other offerings. As it got closer and closer to launch, reading things in the newsletter like the stressing of “phat lootz!” and unusual design decisions like “level up to do crafting” made me start to think that maybe these people weren’t too clear on what they were doing, after all. I decided to wait until after the first few major patches to try it out. Looks like I’ll be waiting a long time.
about 2 years ago
Well, there were no temper tantrums, but the AoC forums do not disappoint:
http://www.mmorpg-info.org/age-of-conan/drunkenness-leads-to-masturbation/
Drunk is a banned word.
about 2 years ago
AoC forums are truly a sight to behold. Then again, a potentially wonderful game has let itself down by strikingly poor communication over seemingly knee-jerk major game changes on many occasions…
The trouble is no-one really knows how the game is meant to work. The equipment stats (which did not work at all) seem to shift in what they do, and classes are not just tweaked, but suffer major changes all of the time – ie, what was buffed by magic damage x is now not buffed by magic damage but by melee damage yada yada etc… with no explanation. People are confused, bemused and angry. And each patch for the past few weeks has only served to confuse irritate everyone further. A great shame for such a promising game.