Diagram of requirements needed to enter Black Temple, the penultimate WoW:Burning Crusade instance, prior to today’s patch:
Diagram of requirements needed to enter Black Temple, the penultimate WoW:Burning Crusade instance, after today’s patch:
Not everyone is happy about this.
Blizzard no longer cares about the hardcore gamers, be that the raiders or the pvpers. Well, we’re done with it. It wasn’t just one thing really. While we were all excited to get some tier6 for our freshly 70 alts from this new badge gear, there’s a part of you that just has to feel some pain when you look back at all the time you spent farming instances…for nothing.
This is, not to put too fine a point on it, silly. It’s silly to expect game developers to create content that 50 people on the planet can access. OK, so that’s an exagerration. According to Wowjutsu, 286,000 people have entered the Black Temple, and 121,000 have finished it. Still, that is 5% of a given fairly hardcore population… to show up on Wowjutsu, you have to be in a raid that has completed some portion of Karazhan. Just as a comparison, those figures above are compared to 2.2 million players that watched the Shade of Aran blow up their raid.
It’s obvious that at least someone (probably a community person, they tend to develop black humor as an on the job requirement) at Blizzard had a pretty clear picture of where they eventually wanted to take things from this parody, complete with this world event:
The Illidari Invasion: A major attack is launched on all major cities, both Horde and Alliance. Repel the invaders for 6 hours or lose the chance to face down Illidan in the Black Temple for one month. Additionally, repair costs in cities you fail to hold go up by 20% due to tax increases.
And you know? Some players would defend that. “THAT IS SO COOL, THE WORLD IS RESPONDING TO OUR SCREWUPS.”
It’s an interesting pattern, actually. As the playerbase in general progresses in mudflated power, content is trivialized so that more people can experience it. What was the domain of the l33t a short time ago now becomes content that’s conquered on the test server before it even goes live.
This isn’t a bad thing. If you make your game’s endgame challenge dependent on how fast your content designers can crank out ever-increasingly-difficult challenges, you either have a game that no one can finish, or a game everyone can eventually finish, given enough investment of time.
Which makes some people unhappy. Raiders denigrating casual players in WoW has a long, storied tradition, after all. But casual players pay the bills. I fully expect Wrath of the Lich King to have a hideously complicated attunement sequence for taking down Arthas at the end. I also fully expect that sequence to disappear a year later. And someone will post a snippy letter on their guild page about how they are totally leaving WoW for some other game because no one understands the purity of their vision any more.
Which also has a long and storied tradition.
(Hint 1: Second entry on the list.)
(Hint 2: If you’re confused, check with your devstalkers.)
#1 by Neil on March 25th, 2008
It’s not that WoW is a treadmill or a grind — all of the “AAA” MMOs are, its just the window dressing that helps us suspend out disbelief — but that in reality, nothing that really shakes up the WoW dynamic has been added since January 2007, when the Burning Crusade came out. Everyone is still level 70, no one gets any new abilities, and no new classes have been added, so the game dynamics have remained completely stagnant since January 2007. Sure, we’ve gotten some new dungeons and new bosses added, and some classes have been nerfed and others buffed (or more accurately, buffed AND nerfed), but there is no feeling of “freshness” in WoW right now New equipment that changes nothing but a set of numbers doesn’t really change how I play the game.
My guild killed Illidan, and I was contemplating resubscribing for the Sunwell, but its just another dungeon to conquer with the exact same classes using exactly the same abilities and tactics. This patch adds a lot of “stuff”, but WoW needs another jolt like the one that Burning Crusade gave it.
#2 by Mist on March 25th, 2008
It’s really not ‘to help casual players’ Casual players will still never get past the first pack of trash in Black Temple.
It’s more to help raiders alts.
#3 by Boanerges on March 25th, 2008
I understand some of their ire.
EQ’s first expansion was called Ruins of Kunark. I remember going into Karnor Castle for the first time. It was quickly renamed Karnage Castle for a while because people would go in to look around and, suddenly, OH CRAP. People were training things to the zone and killing new explorers en masse. I sat there and resed people for a few hours and we begged and pleased with people not to go run around haphazardly and they all ignored us and died, often taking people with them.
Having been in the meticulously tuned uberzones I can see such things going awry easily. Even though WoW doesn’t have EQ’s training problem, I can see a pull being ruined or an event being screwed up because someone wanted to go look at something new. If WoW really went from restricted to unrestricted on the tippy top uberzone then it may be rough for raiders for a time.
On the other hand, some MMO designers go way overboard in progression. Planes of Power had a progression map about that complex. In fact, it was so hardcore that you only had 4 zones open to you initially out of 15 or so zones. Honestly, it was overkill. There was a quest to open up 2 more zones, a couple of mini-raids and then you had to raid from there on out. It was a good thing when they removed the key requirements for some of the lower zones because getting pickup groups in the better experience zones proved difficult if not impossible. The top tier zones still require a key but it’s not as brutal anymore. No expansion since has locked so many zones.
#4 by bizz on March 25th, 2008
IMO this is a good thing, since the hardcore raiding guilds will take a bite at clearing the sunwell, making it harder for raiders with less time to enter the BT and find a guild that will run it with them. As some players will stop playing WoW after the Sunwell is cleared, it will be even harder to find a guild to do the sunwell with once they have cleared it. At least this way the more casual raider (not casual player mind you) will still be able to experience the end game raiding.
#5 by Lee Quillen on March 25th, 2008
Honestly… good riddance.
Now, that sounds petty… and it probably is a bit, but it stems to listening for many years to what basically amounted to…
“It isn’t about the gear, it’s about seeing new and challenging content. So, stop whining casual players and PvPers about gear, because you don’t need the gear and we wouldn’t care if you got the gear.”
I’ve read that time and time again in one form or another… and certainly from Risen on Alleria as I played there. Well guess what, now people are getting the gear (and seeing slightly more content than they would have otherwise), and instead of 5% seeing the final end game content… it may be 7 or 10%. They are still the only one’s seeing that content, still the only one’s getting those named drops that demonstrate that accomplishment…
and the reaction is what?
“there’s a part of you that just has to feel some pain when you look back at all the time you spent farming instances…for nothing.”
yeah, well there’s a good 95% of the population that would love to be capable of seeing/completing that content and instead of enjoying that success they’re upset that someone else got purple shiny toys that made Kara easier (because kara is still the most active Raiding instance).
So, good riddance… don’t let the door hit them in the rear on the way out. Pettiness begets pettiness and this game already promoted the me me me attitude enough.
#6 by yunk on March 25th, 2008
Why would it be “rough for raiders”. That is the same complaint people have about removing Kara attunements. No one is forcing any guild to take undergeared and inexperienced players. Any guild that wants can still have probationary terms and conduct trial runs to test recruits. Rather it just means gearing up alts and new players will go faster, you can still impose skill standards on those players, you just don’t have to wait 6 months before they can join the progression raid where you need them.
Similarly, some people’s complaints (in the links not anyone above) that other people getting loot for badges (i.e. for running kara ad nauseum) somehow lessening their accomplishments is silly. Those players can always point out “I did it when it was hard” and be proud of their accomplishments. It takes nothing away from them.
The complaints about same old same old, and no new content, are valid, but apply equally to all players. Honestly looking at WoW currently, with the dailies, fast track leveling, rep grinds being necessary instead of optional, it’s like it’s not even the same game I started playing 3 years ago. Is it even an “RPG” still? I don’t know.
#7 by J. on March 25th, 2008
“but that in reality, nothing that really shakes up the WoW dynamic has been added since January 2007, when the Burning Crusade came out. Everyone is still level 70, no one gets any new abilities, and no new classes have been added, so the game dynamics have remained completely stagnant since January 2007.”
What else is supposed to happen? “Stagnant” is the same thing as “stable.”
#8 by Neil on March 25th, 2008
In a content patch, not much is generally supposed to happen. However, expansions for WoW come much slower than for other MMOs, so the game goes for very long periods without any kind of meaningul shakeup.
For you, that might be “stable”, but for me, it’s the more pejorative “stagnant”. That’s all.
#9 by Alarik on March 25th, 2008
“Having been in the meticulously tuned uberzones I can see such things going awry easily. Even though WoW doesn’t have EQ’s training problem, I can see a pull being ruined or an event being screwed up because someone wanted to go look at something new. If WoW really went from restricted to unrestricted on the tippy top uberzone then it may be rough for raiders for a time.”
All of these encounters are instanced. It’s not like guilds farming Illidan are going to have random_noob_01 wander into their raid zone.
And they’ve been pacing the lifting of attunements such that there’s always one tier of content that’s still pretty much only accessible to raiders. There’s no attunement on the Sunwell Plateau but there’s not much use in going there until you’ve gotten gear from the T6 content, which just now had its attunement lifted.
All they’re really doing is constantly raising the entry level so that it’s the same distance from the endgame as they add new content. There is room for raiders to excel and have gear that shows off their progress, they just have to keep doing it as new content comes out.
#10 by Apache on March 25th, 2008
>>It’s silly to expect game developers to create content that 50 people on the planet can access.
for most developers I would agree, but since we’re talking about blizzard, i say develop for the gold
#11 by Freakazoid on March 25th, 2008
I’d be more impressed if black temple suddenly became a small group dungeon. Dropping the raid requirement has a bigger impact on already established raiding guilds more than it does for anyone “up and coming”.
#12 by Michael Pearson on March 25th, 2008
“While we were all excited to get some tier6 for our freshly 70 alts from this new badge gear, there’s a part of you that just has to feel some pain when you look back at all the time you spent farming instances…for nothing.”
Maybe you should have done something actually fun instead, so you wouldn’t regret it.
This is why I quit Eve Online – the amount of time you had to spend not having fun (mining /ratting for isk) so that you could have fun (0.0 PVP in a big corp).
#13 by Sullee on March 25th, 2008
Mist: “It’s really not ‘to help casual players’ Casual players will still never get past the first pack of trash in Black Temple.
It’s more to help raiders alts.”
In some sense I agree but this change shouldn’t be taken out of context. This is just another in a very long series of changes all designed to make raiding easier\more appealing. The ultimate goal of this change and changes like it is to get more people into endgame raiding.
IMO this devotion to raiding continues to be the huge mistake that hopefully someone will exploit thereby snatching a big portion of the market blizzard has grown. None of these changes are going to get enough people into raiding to ever make it anything other than a very small niche. Could do as well devoting the bulk of your content dev resources to husband and wife duos who require accessibility aids demographic.
#14 by Lugh on March 25th, 2008
Not to throw cold water on a generally good point or anything, but there are a couple of misstatements above:
- The big, nasty flowchart is for attunement to Mount Hyjal, not Black Temple.
- Most of the big, nasty flowchart is actually requirements for attunement to Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep, both of which were removed months ago to similar Chicken Little whining from the hardcore elite.
#15 by Hamster_Bite on March 26th, 2008
Anybody else remember when Lum’s rants used to be *against* the game companies?
#16 by ubvman on March 26th, 2008
Neil wrote:
For you, that might be “stable”, but for me, it’s the more pejorative “stagnant”. That’s all.
For an EQ1 player, I’d take stable over “wild ass barely tested (if that) expansions every six months” anytime. Really, there are still bugs and untuned content left over from Luclin (7 years ago) that are unfixed and complained over. Hey! why is the animation so retarded looking? Because they had to rush out the animation to meet the deadline – poke much with a hammer? Then there’s the rush GoD expansion cluster fuck that was pushed out without a level increase needed to do the content (no joke) – basically GoD was an raiding expansion that even raiders couldn’t do. Keys wouldn’t work, flags were screwed and many hours and tears expanded.
So yeah, unless you have experienced rushed bugfuck expansions released to meet arbitrary 6 month deadlines; I would not be so fast to dismiss stable as “stagnant”
#17 by ubvman on March 26th, 2008
Mobhunter article:
Flagging and Attunement: Blizzard Gets It, SOE Doesn’t
Mobhunter used to be Moorgard’s online job application resume (in a form of a blog) to SOE before he finally got the job. The guy that writed Mobhunter now – Loral seems to have decided that he doesn’t need a SOE job (good choice – you can do better) and start writing whats actually affecting players in EQ1.
Fairly accurate article IMHO, flagged or keyed zones destroy guilds. You have got to remove the restrictions when the content gets old. I would think even the raiding guilds would appreciate the removal. Once their e-peen rage subsides.
#18 by Neil on March 26th, 2008
Believe me, I’ve been into MMOs going on 10 years now, and I am well aware of their ups and downs over the years.
I’m just saying that for me, the fresh coat of pain that are WoW’s content patches aren’t worth justifying a monthly fee anymore. For me, the game is stagnant. No need to get hostile.
#19 by D-0ne on March 26th, 2008
Blizzard understands some of their customers. Bravo!
#20 by Mo Green on March 26th, 2008
This is the kind of redesign the tax code is in serious need of, take note presidential candidates.
#21 by Damion on March 26th, 2008
The big, nasty flowchart is for attunement to Mount Hyjal, not Black Temple.
The attunement quest for BT is killing the first boss in Hyjal. So it’s off by one. =)
#22 by No.6 on March 26th, 2008
Even though every bit of common sense tells me that it’s better to serve the 95% than the (screaming) 5%, experience watching and playing MMOGs says otherwise.
Whichever game has the most ridiculous, convoluted, elitist ‘hardcore’ progression involving areas that most players never see also somehow turns out to be the most popular. Conversely, it appears that often a significant and lasting decline in popularity follows a change that opens a game up to the ‘casual’ players.
Maybe that 5%, the sort of people who actually have the spare time in hand to grind hours ad nauseam to advance and the moral flexibility to climb over other people to enter the ‘elite’ guild, exert influence beyond their numbers because they also have the spare time to rant endlessly on multiple forums and the lack of character needed to do so using multiple identities, misrepresenting their role vis a vis the game, and so forth so as to make it appear to the casual reader that ‘everyone’ is now upset with a given decision.
As a result it appears to me that many of the 95% make their buying / subscription choices at least partly based on the will of the 5% because that’s whose opinions are seen when players and potential players search to see what other players think of a game change.
(Obviously people don’t just blindly follow what they read, but it’s a significant influence).
That may not be fair or right or just, but it appears to be real.
From a design standpoint, it’s a tricky thing to keep 4-8 hour/wk players satisfied with their progress and also keep 40-80+ hour/wk players from being bored.
Currently content intended to challenge the hyperplayers, particularly expansion content, is IMO sold improperly. Casual player C is forced to shoulder the cost of developing an area he won’t see in order to get access to other content (e.g., a new race or class) bundled with the expansion.
I would argue that ‘elite’ raid stuff should be purchasable with a microtransaction a la EQ2 adventure packs or XBox Live but maybe someone who knows how EQ2’s experiment in adventure packs went can lend an opinion about the viability of such an idea.
#23 by xzzy on March 26th, 2008
Newbies are welcome to the Black Temple.. probably the most tedious instance in the game.
The front bosses drop a bunch of crap that would go ignored by most raiders. It was yard trash taken to new extremes. Then you got the legions of more classic yard trash to filter through, and maybe after a day of raiding you would get to the fun fights (Mother, Council, Illidan).
So, welcome to the suck guys. Soon you’ll realize that Karazhan is about as fun as it’s going to get.
#24 by Pete on March 26th, 2008
Hmm .. have they ever considered making the attunement guild-specific, not character-specific?
#25 by Drakks on March 26th, 2008
My thoughts are best summed up by the bad guy from The Incredibles: “When everyone is super, no one is.”
Without end game goals to strive for with actual effort, I can’t really find the game entertaining. If I want that sort of instant gratification, I’ll run single player games. I prefer my MMORPGs with a side of cat-ass, thank you.
#26 by John Moore on March 26th, 2008
“When everyone is super, no one is.”
That is the bad philosophy to design a game around, and is something the game industry is going to have to overcome. I remeber it from EQ, and people are , at this very moment, whining about WoW purples not being “epic” anymore.
The thing is, gaming is entertainment. If a game wants to get a huge player base, it has to be fun to a huge number of people. Like all other forms of entertainmaent, then everyone has to at least feel he is “super”.
People do not read “Lord of the Rings”, and imagine themselves as one of a thousand footsoliders fighting in the battle at Black Gate. They relate to the heroes. People do not watch Star Wars and think, “Hey, this is exciting. I want to play the online game and work in a tavern.” They want to be a hero. They want to be entertained.
I understand that many MMO players feel there has to be an “elite” in a game , or no one is “super”. But that will not net a game millions of players. That is on it’s way to being how to design a niche game. And that doesn’t mean it is not a vaild form of game design. It means you can not appeal to a lot of people by telling them only a few will be jugded worthy of the game.
So , even though you may think Ingmar Bergman is the best movie director ever, his movies will never make the numbers of a hollywood action film. Because most people just want to be entertained. You can talk of how intellectually lazy the movie veiwing audience is till your in the grave, but it will not change the reality.
#27 by Damion on March 26th, 2008
Without end game goals to strive for with actual effort, I can’t really find the game entertaining. If I want that sort of instant gratification, I’ll run single player games. I prefer my MMORPGs with a side of cat-ass, thank you.
There are still end-goals. It’s called Sunwell. Blizzard just moved the cheese.
That is the bad philosophy to design a game around, and is something the game industry is going to have to overcome. I remeber it from EQ, and people are , at this very moment, whining about WoW purples not being “epic” anymore… I understand that many MMO players feel there has to be an “elite” in a game , or no one is “super”. But that will not net a game millions of players.
Actually, that philosophy did net WoW millions of players. Meanwhile, people got to max level in other games that had no elder game with no high level goals, and found that there was nothing more to aspire to. So they left.
Instances like Black Temple and Sunwell are ultimately good for the game, as they provide a gameplay horizon for the players to continue to strive for. This is not to say that the raid progression game doesn’t have it’s own host of design challenges to be addressed. But it’s ultimately served the game well.
#28 by Drakks on March 26th, 2008
In theory, sure. In practice though?
If every person in a MMO is a carbon copy of the next, and getting the top end gear/equipment/whatever is solely a function of your ability to log in… how much appeal will the game have now that any semblance of “progression” has been completely disassembled in favor of running on some even virtual keel?
I’ve always felt, and I’m by no means an expert, that the key to MMO longevity was your connection to your in-game avatar. It made you fret dying in certain games, and created an atmosphere that was fairly engrossing. With Blizzard basically shatting on the idea of risk v. reward and systematically handing out the top teir items for really next to nothing, how much of a connection can people possibly build to this character — or better stated how long will they find this character to be the source of entertainment if they have nothing really to strive for?
And I’d wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that creating sort of a player-class division (casual v. elites, and the various shades between) will not net a game millions — it just has to be done well. EQ did well for itself and grossly leaned to the elite side, whereas Blizzard is at the other end of the spectrum and catering towards the casual. I’d like to think there is a happy medium out there somewhere.
#29 by Rob on March 26th, 2008
As an X hardcore player who finally got a life I never understood the “if other people get gear equal to mine with less effort then all my life accomplishments are worthless” arguement.
Sounds like a childish “I’m better then you so only I get shiney things. You can’t have them, and I don’t have to share. NOT YOURS!!! MOOOMMMYYYY!”.
It just does not make sense. How much development cash was spent on Naxx? How many players saw it? This is not efficient use of resources.
My initial hopes of badges/heroic modes enabling casual players to see hardcore content are gone. But hey, it is a step in the right direction. Maybe the next game will get it right.
#30 by JuJutsu on March 26th, 2008
“Actually, that philosophy did net WoW millions of players.”
I wish I had a for every key to WoW’s success I’ve read.
#31 by JuJutsu on March 26th, 2008
insert any random monetary unit in my post
#32 by John Moore on March 26th, 2008
“Actually, that philosophy did net WoW millions of players”
I respectfully disagree. It is the philosophy that stopped the EQ franchise from having millions of players.
WoW has millions of players because casuals can play and have fun. Not because millions of players are trying to be the “super elite”.
And it worked very well, until endgame. Then the casuals were told they were palying the wrong game.
#33 by Aufero on March 26th, 2008
I did what seemed like years of backflagging in EQ to get new guild members up to speed and able to participate in the latest raids. Been there, done that, don’t want to do it again, and I doubt I’m even close to being the only one who feels that way.
If removing admissions requirements for raid instances makes you want to leave a game, you were ready to leave anyway.
#34 by Dralmoo on March 26th, 2008
As a raid leader for what by the standards of this blog would be a hardcore uber guild (i’ve killed Illidan multple times and was in Sunwell last night), removing attunements was the best decision Blizzard has made in ages. Watching your guild fall apart because it’s impossible to replace players who have quit without spending 2 days on really old content is NOBODY’s idea of fun.
In fact, if you read the Risen post linked above, they’re not complaining about attunements either, in any way.
#35 by hellfire on March 26th, 2008
The last 2 patches have been about lowering the bar so that the majority of people would be able to see the remaining content before Lich King. Next to no one saw Naxx and it’s too a sweet zone for that to happen.
The badge gear and attunement changes don’t mean anything if you suck. I know tons of people with fancy gear who can’t find 1000 DPS with both hands and a flashlight. In fact, a cursory look at my last few WWS runs show lesser-than rogues with all their fancy toys (including a decked-out master macesmith) that are, at best, 125dps below me and my piddly little S2 swords.
I’ll still finish the attunement quests. Why wouldn’t I? A Fancy title and the knowledge that I led my group through difficult encounters is something worth doing.
I’m friendly with the GL and some of the top-players in the #1 guild on Stormrage and I’ve yet to see them gnashing teeth. They don’t need others to be denied something to validate their accomplishments. Someone chain-dying in Hyjal has no bearing on anyone’s life but that group. It ain’t my repair bill…
Also, the hyperbole by way of detail graphic also includes Karazhan keying and such which is a) trivial and b) the place most people spend months in getting ready to advance. The philosophy of keying isn’t to prevent you from getting good stuff, it’s to provide a reasonable benchmark as to when you are ready to start moving up. If you can’t get attuned for BT it’s unlikely that you’ll make it through trash. If you can’t beat a heroic, you’re not going to kill Nightbane, etc, etc.
#36 by Bleaktea on March 26th, 2008
Some peoples’ ideal game is a hair shirt, I guess.
WoW is easy and fun and has a good sense of humour. That’s what drew me and my friends in, after the dour grind of other MMORPGs. You got to sit down and enjoy yourself. Casual WoW raiding can be like this too, and I’m glad to see it expanding. It’s the kind of game you can play while arguing over Ventrilo about whether the Battlestar Galactica could beat a Star Destroyer in a straight fight.
People who get all bent out of shape about it seem to be missing the point – and the fun.
#37 by Drakks on March 26th, 2008
The problem isn’t removal of attunements, its the active devalueing of the effort required for every person who completely or put time into cockblock A, right up to the point Blizzard arbitraily decides to just remove it…while still yeilding the exact same reward.
If this has always been the ultimate plan, it should just be released in that form.
Seriously, why make people jump through month+ hoops just for the sake of making them jump through hoops? No “hardcore” raider would have felt slighted by this at all if Blizzard has just never put attunements and the like in the game in the first place.
#38 by Taemojitsu on March 26th, 2008
SSC and TK attunements were removed a while ago. So, 90% of your ‘before’ diagram was obsolete. And the reason BT/MT attunements were removed was because of the difficulty in attuning alts and players new to the guild.
Do your research before making a post like this next time
#39 by hellfire on March 26th, 2008
@Drakks: Simple. They were designed for one thing and the “cost” of doing that thing was deemed to be far, far worse than the benefit. Therefore, TADAA, changed.
I’m also curious as to how removing the need for keying delivers the same “reward”, since it doesn’t auto-complete the quests or kill new bosses for you. This is the same kind of dubious logic that people use to decry gay marriage as damaging “normal” marriage.
#40 by Damion on March 26th, 2008
SSC and TK attunements were removed a while ago. So, 90% of your ‘before’ diagram was obsolete.
Which invalidates the diagram, but little of the discussion that follows.
And the reason BT/MT attunements were removed was because of the difficulty in attuning alts and players new to the guild.
Discussing the motives, and the exact ramifications of what this means for the future, is the interesting part of the new story. Has Blizzard changed their minds on attunements, or is this just a one-dungeon thing, the way the SSC/TK removals were? Should we see fewer attunement quests in the next expansion? Will they move from personal attunements to guild attunements? Or is this just a pattern now that Blizzard will enforce for the foreseeable future (let people have at a raid for 4-6 months, then remove attunement to help bunch people up again).
#41 by Vivianne Draper on March 26th, 2008
Make the end game uberstuff all BoE so the Chinese farmers can farm and sell on AH. Then make the end game instances into non instances and PVP BGs instead but they must be premaids only. If the uberguilds want to keep the uberstuff all to themselves, let them defend the areas. If the casual players want the uberstuff they can buy it.
I’m from the government and I’m here to help.
#42 by Dan on March 26th, 2008
Then make the end game instances into non instances and PVP BGs instead but they must be premaids only. If the uberguilds want to keep the uberstuff all to themselves, let them defend the areas.
*EQ flashbacks*
#43 by Yunk on March 26th, 2008
I still don’t understand where the “no effort” comes from. Can someone point me to where in the patch it says Illidan will drop dead upon seeing me?
What can I buy with badges, 3 -4 upgrades of t6 quality? yeah.. that will make Illidan a chump. sure….
#44 by Yunk on March 26th, 2008
Seriously, why make people jump through month+ hoops just for the sake of making them jump through hoops
Because people will do it and pay for the privilege.
#45 by Taemojitsu on March 26th, 2008
“Will they move from personal attunements to guild attunements?”
…yes, that’s the plan. That or account-based attunements. If they haven’t finished the technology, they probably won’t bother to make any extensive attunements, otherwise they’ll run into the exact same problem they did here.
#46 by Vivianne Draper on March 26th, 2008
*EQ flashbacks*
But they want it to be HARD!
#47 by Dren on March 26th, 2008
Hardcore logic for the win. Seriously screwed up stuff here.
From what I’m reading the rules of the hardcore are:
1. If you make the content easy then we don’t have anything to strive for over others!
2. If you make the content hard, don’t ever change it because that makes us sad. We don’t have very good memories, so all of the satisfaction we had before is negated instantly!
3. Make the content hard and keep it hard forever and ever. Then when we quit, we will be happy knowing we have dominance over all those soft casual players. I’ll be 75 humming a soft song of satisfaction at the thought of it. “We are the champions, of the world…”
All of this is regardless of the fact that 99% of those guilds not in those instances today won’t be there tomorrow or ever anyway. The gear checks are still well in place people. That is the true “attunement.” Your treasure (my precious) is still well guarded.
“We are the Champions!…keep those filthy hobbitzes away from my precious…OF THE WORLD!” – Time for your medicine Mr. Hardy Corz.
#48 by Alarik on March 26th, 2008
“Seriously, why make people jump through month+ hoops just for the sake of making them jump through hoops? No “hardcore” raider would have felt slighted by this at all if Blizzard has just never put attunements and the like in the game in the first place.”
Because there are a large number of raiders who apparently consider it a point of pride that they suffered through those cockblocks. When Blizzard puts out a new zone with a new set of cockblocks, they lift the old ones so other people who don’t care to deal with cockblocks can see some more stuff.
#49 by Adam Tiler on March 26th, 2008
When everyone is super, no one is.
Simplistic, but great point, and one that I argued strongly for here.
#50 by Taemojitsu on March 26th, 2008
argued much more eloquently many years ago, D&D style:
http://home.netcom.com/~rogermw/ADnD/IPDC1.html
it does help to read the previous stories but either way~