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I Can Has Ur Market?
In most of the MMO industry, most of us hew to what I like to call the “gentleman’s agreement.” It’s basically that you don’t trash your competition in public. Partially because we’re all in the same boat in terms of the challenges we face in bringing these beasts to market, partially because chances are good thanks to the general mobility of people within MMO/VW companies that you may be working tomorrow with the person you’re talking about today, but mainly because talking smack is just not terribly professional conduct in general.
Corey Bridges of Multiverse apparently didn’t get the memo.
In other words, in Bridges’ opinion, Rosedale’s resignation is “an acknowledgment that [Second Life] is not suitable for mainstream users and corporate customers — neither the culture within Second Life, nor the tech underpinning it, is suitable for either.”
Continues Bridges, “I think with Second Life, he [Phillip Rosedale] and Cory Ondrejka built something that got a lot of attention. It didn’t ever quite go mainstream, but certainly it got a lot of companies — big consumer brands, enterprise companies, to sort of examine this new phenomenon of virtual worlds, and got them to dip their toe in the water, which has been great. To some degree, I guess — to mix water metaphors — ‘the rising tide lifts all boats,’ and that’s been true for the past couple years.”
“That turned a corner last year, however, as the sort of completely wild, inappropriate expectations got way too far past what that particular world could actually deliver,” notes Bridges. “What a lot of these big companies have found is that yeah, this is a useful new medium, or at least a method to engage with folks. But then, after they got that experience, they said, ‘OK, what we really need is to build a virtual space where we have more control, where there are no flying penises, where our brand is not underneath somebody else’s brand.’”
And what would be his suggestion?
“I do honestly sincerely think we all owe Philip a thank you for bringing attention to the industry. Now it’s just time for the real technology to step in,” Bridges says.
You don’t say.
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about 2 years ago
Every time I read about Party A hauling Party B over the coals for, dash it!, violating some arbitrary standard of gentlemanly conduct — just not done, old sport! — it’s because B has said something A dislikes that is nonetheless unquestionably, incontrovertibly true, and A can do nothing but sputter.
Good to learn, though, that Broken Toys is the arbiter of gentlemanly conduct in the MMO field. Man, up to this moment I’d totally missed that.
about 2 years ago
Aw, snap.
*gets popcorn*
about 2 years ago
With any luck, Raph Koster will be along shortly to show how Multiverse is greatly inferior to Metaplace and we’ll have the beginnings of a great dev brawl.
about 2 years ago
Pretty much everything Corey Bridges said there has been said here before. Slightly more competitive in tone, but the same general ideas.
I don’t see any smack.
about 2 years ago
The ‘gentleman’s agreement’, for most of us, has nothing to do with polite conduct and everything to do with ‘my resume might be in front of that guy in 6 years, or 6 months’. And that doesn’t just apply to the guy or project you just trashed, it’s all that guys friends, and all the people who worked on that project.
Yeah, now it’s just a bunch of guys who lost their job cause their game went under, but in a couple years one of those database programmers is going to be a Lead Designer somewhere entirely different. Maybe somewhere you want to work.
This doesn’t just apply to the Game Industry. Professionals in most industries don’t talk smack about other people in their industry. You don’t want to burn that bridge you might need in 5 years.
about 2 years ago
Were his comments smack talk or honest assessment? Were his comments gentlemanly?.. probably not. Unprofessional?.. I don’t think so. Perhaps the person looking for a job or doing the interview in the future may find that sort of frank openness refreshing and/or useful.
about 2 years ago
Oh my god, he admitted the truth! He’ll never work in this town again! *shakes his fist*
about 2 years ago
I’m with the rest of the peanut gallery. How many times have you been at a table during some conference and somebody pointed out that the Second Life technology platform pretty much sucks?
We’ve defined professionalism as “You will not point out the stink of someone else’s shit.” So when someone drops a turd in a box and puts it in the market, we all act like it’s a complete surprise, completely beyond understanding.
A turd is a turd, you can’t polish it, and pretending it doesn’t stink isn’t doing anyone any favors.
about 2 years ago
..but can you taxi in Second Life?
about 2 years ago
Actually, I’m on record as saying all kinds of ungentlemanly things about Second Life’s stability, so I’m not sure if I’m supposed to be sputtering. Of course, I wasn’t actually trying to sell my own product when doing it, either.
We feign moral outrage, so you don’t have to.
No, you have. My definition is somewhat different, and involves not trying to score personal or business points (the moral high ground that so offended Mr. Varney) at the expense of people I might be working with someday (the enlightened self-interest DrewC alluded to).
It’s very possible to talk about the failures of other products, I think, but it has to be done with care so you don’t have the wild appearance of conflict of interest that this quoted snippet, I thought, clearly illustrated.
about 2 years ago
I have to agree that it’s an underhand way of saying ‘This is what the Industry wants, but done properly.’
To me, it reminds me of the ‘Excellent Suggestions, Ms Harcourt, would any of you Gentlemen care to make them ?’
about 2 years ago
Oh my god, is he saying that second life is “teh sux?!”
Quickly, we must get this news out to everyone, before they are tricked into paying for accounts! My god man, hurry! hurry!
about 2 years ago
Excuse me. Excuse me. If there is anyone not buried in work… Could you please write a nice blog entry on why insiders can’t think outside the box and why they had better not.
Well, gotta pay the mortgage, get four children through college and save for my retirement.
Laters!
about 2 years ago
In many fields you don’t want to expend breath trashing competitors, but rather promoting yourself. Whether for a personal interview or trying to win a customer or contract, you may do comparisons but from a positive light “we are better because of x” not “our competitor sucks because of y” since being negative can turn away potential customers, or you might be trying to sell to a former employee of y, etc. Being positive is just better salesmanship.
about 2 years ago
Is it crazy to suggest that the “flying penis” problem is not solvable if you’re trying to make a Third Life? Give people a world, and they’re gonna put penises in it.
about 2 years ago
I’m somewhat on the fence about this. First off everything he said is true but then otherwise it wouldn’t be much of an issue. On the other hand it is bad form to publicly speak negatively of your direct competition as a representative of your company (which as co-founder he is all the time whether he likes it or not). But then everything he said is true…
about 2 years ago
I think that the things raising my eyebrow a few millimeters are not the comments themselves, but how ear-piercingly LOUDLY the last sentence ends with “technology SUCH AS MY COMPANY’S PRODUCT.”
Saying what you mean with what you don’t say is an art form, and this particular bit of art looks like dogs playing poker, executed in finger paint.
about 2 years ago
What Sanya said.
Especially so, since Multiverse has no track record yet; will he call his own product a turd, if it turns out to be one?
Oh, and when can we expect the Firefly MMO, too?
about 2 years ago
There are more artful ways to say what he said… the general form being, you find a nice thing to say about your competitor, and segue into how good your product is. I think that’s Scott’s general objection, is the lack of style points in the interview.
about 2 years ago
I think Robert E. Howard put it best:
“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
about 2 years ago
“Give people a world and they’re gonna put penises in it.”
Yup. But how long will it take? If we only had a metric, some sort of….oh, I don’t know…Time to Cock?
about 2 years ago
Old Man Murray where are you when we need you?
If only Erik hadn’t abandoned his sacred duty of proving us with hilarious units of game measurement so that he could provide us with hilarious puzzle FPSs.
about 2 years ago
No flying dongs, hee.
I’m pretty sure everybody making Graphical MUSH 2.0 hasn’t adequately taken into account the entire bunch of opportunity costs involved with “being the most entertaining site for the Patriotic Nigras to set up operations in”.
about 2 years ago
The last time I heard of a MMO company putting its technology before anything else forward as a reason to take it seriously was Wish. Most people know that you actually have to have something fun and engaging that customers will play money for the chance to experience. And has been pointed out, while SL might well have been short on tech to support their grand design of user-created content uber alles, but Multiverse, last I checked, has a whole bunch of projects by third parties in various stages of development, none of which are ready at all. If the only difference between them and butterfly.net is technology, that’s not a lot of difference.
All this is doing is underlining the apparent fact that not a whole lot of people have the ability to make MMOs and make them work out long-term. And that’s something I’d think people at Multiverse would want to address before they draw too much more attention to themselves.
about 2 years ago
Saying something as obvious and gennerally acepted as what he pointed out( especially with respect to the bigger corperate picture) is hardly talking smack.
about 2 years ago
On the one hand, he’s right. On the other hand, he should leave the smack-talking to us professional hecklers.
about 2 years ago
Bashing SL’s technology is easy and garners readership each and every time. You’d think the subject would be a big DUH by now.
Whats not so easy is to write about what’s right with SL or even what Philip’s departure might mean for SL and the LL culture. Philip has cultivated a corporate culture where employees work on the things that jazz their world. Which means that pesky little software bugs that are hard and tedious to find get left behind. That means that things like Windlight and Havok get a lot of attention while things like raising the amount of groups available or how many people can fit on a sim or anything else that addresses a social problem rather than a “hey isn’t this cool!” technology problem get left in the dust.
Philip’s departure *could* change that. I’m not saying it will and it depends on who replaces him but SL is not going to get “fixed” without a lot of corporate culture change AND a lot of money. Regardless it has a lot of things that really work for it but its harder to write about these things and no one wants to hear or read that and its ever so not cool or ‘in’ — so generally developers and game bloggers don’t look for that part of SL.
It would be nice to see an indepth analysis of the whole kit and kaboodle from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
about 2 years ago
When somebody says “honestly sincerely” they’re almost invariably full of shit ^_____^
about 2 years ago
“Bad form!”
Yelled the crowd of lost boys as Hook dug his uh.. Hook into Peter Pan’s arm.
It’s perfectly alright to skewer your foe when they honestly have a problem with their sword-fighting skillz, but you shouldn’t be _rude_ about it.