The Darkfall Forum isn’t happy I closed the 2 1/2 week old post on a Darkfall commentary that turned into PK VS ANTI, PART 87,308,022. I’d have posted this on their forums instead, it being considerably more relevant there, but, well, their forum has a 72 hour waiting period. Yes, posting in Darkfall’s forums is much like buying a handgun.
What kind of bullshit is that. I know this is kinda off topic, but to have a entire page mocking this game, yet shutting down the discussion because the peopel who support it come to….support it..is the msot ridiculously self centered and self righteous thing i’ve ever seen anyone do i na forum. I guess i dont’ visit enough forums or something.
I know the distinction is probably lost, but I wasn’t mocking Darkfall, but the *manly man* commentary someone made about it. To mock Darkfall (which I wouldn’t do anyway since I rarely if ever talk about specific games due to working on competing products), I would have to know anything about it, preferably through – you know – playing it.
And I shut down the post comments because it was in response to a Darkfall developer almost literally telling his fans to go “defend the faith” two weeks after the post actually had been made. Said fans did so, and did so vociferously and without knowing or caring about any other posts on the blog, which, frankly, I didn’t find terribly amusing. Yet still, I let it run for about a week, so that everyone who wanted to get in their points could. When the post war showed no sign of ending, and in fact started repeating themselves (easy to do since the identical arguments have been raging since the previous century), I put the whole thing out of its misery.
This no doubt pissed off the participants, who then went back to Darkfall and muttered the same frat-boy juvenile things they muttered since I mocked the literally exact same people for literally the exact same reasons EIGHT FREAKING YEARS AGO.
OSI hired Sir Adrick and Evocare. I laughed and then I cried.
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Who cares about what Scott Jennings does on his own worthless section of the internet? His blog is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. He posted a completely bullshit response to an article, and when his ignorant ass got called for it and the Darkfall community stepped up to the plate, he realized that the average Forumfall members excrement contains a greater degree of intelligence so he ran like a bitch. I don’t see the issue. Let idiots be idiots.
You know, I’m not sure what would piss them off more – the realization that I’m actually not just a random blogger, or that Evocare is responsible for the PvP and systems design on a somewhat popular game.
But let’s move on to the key mistake they made about my personal investment or lack thereof in all of this:
Yeah, he apparently feels that he can be a critic, but wants to be above criticism himself. I guess it sucks to be called out on a facetious remark on your own blog.
he can dish it out, but he has to go cry and lock the post as soon as he’s called out… lame… O.o…
Except that for the most part, I didn’t take part in the *very* *long* *argument*. Because, well, nothing new was being said. It’s the same argument that raged back when people were pissed off that someone stole their house keys in UO. It’s the same argument that Shadowbane fans made any time someone dared point out that the game they were rabidly following TO THE DEATH did not yet technically exist.
I didn’t say anything mainly because, well, I already did, years ago, and there’s no real reason to repeat myself. So really, I had no dog in the hunt; the comment thread itself was closed simply because the blog’s actual readers as opposed to forum invaders had moved on, and in my capacity as site janitor, it was my job to shut it down so as to not clog the “new comments” indicators.
So there you have it. Feel free to chuckle and high-five each other about how you pizz0wn3d the carebear. (Despite, you know, my being neither.) Hope you have fun in Darkfall!
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Before this topic goes completely out of style, does anyone remember an MMO parody article with all the MMOs represented as lemonade stands? It was before WoW but after Anarchy Online; I don’t remember if DAOC was in it. If you know where I can find it, please let me know.
Did the shark have lasers? (Will Darkfall have sharks with friggin’ lasers?)
Actually, I bet somewhere on Rubi-Ka there are laser sharks. So AO. Er. Yeah.
“la-ser”.
I’m honestly surprised nobody’s went and dug up the old features list from Mourning or Shadowbane and compared it to Darkfall’s list yet. I’m not surprised, however, that there are a small group of very loud people screaming about how the game will be the next holy grail and that the other games DON’T EVEN COMPARE .
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There are a lot of presumptuous assertions flying around in this thread. I know a lot of you (developers and players alike) like to use Shadowbane as your sword to strike down anything with a remotely similar ideological backing. The problem all of you run into is that you virtually have no proof that the reason Shadowbane failed was related to a “dog eat dog” environment whatsoever. Shadowbane failed in my opinion predominantly because of technical and mechanical flaws. In my educated (and yes it is educated) opinion there is ample data to make the claim that Shadowbane’s loss of appeal resulted from things like poor customer service, lag, exploits, and bugs. At the very least everyone has to accept that this ideology is at least on equal ground as an argument to the opposing belief that it failed because of it’s “open world” from a hard evidence standpoint
Let’s say that Shadowbane did fail because of things like asset destruction and open PvP…..from an empirical standpoint you’d have to be a fool to take that and run with it as an example of the ultimate failure of open worlds for one simple reason. The data is just plain CONTAMINATED. No scientist in his right mind would make an assertion about the reasons something failed or succeeded when there are hundreds of variables all of which could have a significant impact on the results.
Even worse yet coming from people who were merely spectators to the process and now feel they have solid ground on which to use Shadowbane as an ideological weapon against an entire genre. I’m sorry but to say that the developers of Darkfall are “following in the footsteps” of failure is based upon weak and presumptuous ideology at best. There were so many aspects of Shadowbane that were just so terrible that regardless of an open world or not there were already HUGE impacts to take into consideration.
I am all about good natured debate, but honestly the whole concept of abandoning a conceptual ideology because of a few poor examples just boggles my mind. Especially when you consider games like Eve Online that work on the same principles and are growing at an astounding rate recently.
I also think there is a huge underestimation of the amount of “hardcore” or “PvP” types that have a more broadened idea of gaming than we have traditionally seen. Sure there will be griefers, exploiters, and all around degenerates. Some of them may very well have come here to this blog to cause a problem. However, rest assured that the majority of the people that have waited for years for Darkfall aren’t waiting for open PvP. They are waiting for a chance to make an impact on the world they play in. A real impact not the superficial kind we are accustomed to in the mainstream. That is what most supporters of the “sandbox” style truly crave, player versus player just happens to be a part of that. And you can bet that mere “grievers” and “pks” will be under the boot of someone much, much more enlightened.
The thing about the DF forums is that everything there was to discuss has already been covered twenty times. It seems the majority of people still posting, and not just checking in occasionally to see how the development is going, are completely crazy fanboys and completely crazy, full-time trolls who keep making accounts to say that the game is never coming out and was part of a plan to…make people post on a forum for some reason.
“However, your argument that previous discussion on this subject is invalid is based on the premise that things have changed. My comment was that this is an issue that is very much rooted in the behavior of the players, and that people, as a whole, do not change. Therefore the arguments of eight years ago are every bit as valid today as they were then.”
People, as a whole, did not even know what an MMORPG was eight years ago. There’s millions of new players who never got forced into a bad pvp system full of assholes, and never got dragged into this never ending argument between small groups of very loud people.
I think the demographic has changed, with people from more varied walks of life and age groups playing, and the gaming landscape has changed. When a game comes out that lets you do something that no other game has let you do, the first thing you do is try it. Games like Fallout and GTA and UO let you go around and try to kill anyone for no reason at all, and UO let you also insult their sexuality and troll real people with real feelings, trying to make them have the least fun possible. Some people still like doing that, some people grew out of it . But the excitement of griefing won’t be as strong to kids who have grown up playing games with that kind of freedom. There’ll still be plenty, but I don’t expect their numbers to be high enough (compared to the mature people who jsut are looking for a fun, competitive game) to have the power to screw up a server they did in the past.
Wow this might be beating a dead horse that is rotting and decaying by now, but owell.
Just for the people bringing up the argument that PvP kills itself. That experience runs contrary to what was done in eve online> Eve online’s player base does not stay because of the ratting missions in safe space, they stay because the extremely intense politically riveting PvP. Something darkfall wishes to implement in a fantasy setting. Minus the spreadsheet math. Yeh sure everyone cannot be a hero at the same time. But everyone can be a hero at some point. There are a lot of people when kicked in the dirt they do not quit they get back up again and keep fighting. It is exactly that loss and gain of power that provides a continuing life force for a game. I have seen alliances crushed in eve, organizations of hundreds sometimes thousand of people that had taken months to organize fall overnight. They loose with that player owned stations and mining rights. Those people do not quit, they start back up again and continue fighting.
Hi people…
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