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	<title>Comments on: This. Isn&#8217;t. Sparter.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/</link>
	<description>Random Comments About Games and Tractors</description>
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		<title>By: PJ</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9086</link>
		<dc:creator>PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9086</guid>
		<description>Many believe the future MMOs will follow Korea&#039;s &quot;Item Shop&quot; strategy. There is money out there but whose is it? Unless the game design changes, the demand for gold and items will still be there.

@Scott: As a game designer, how do you see the success of microtransactions in Korea being applied to future US games and at the same time be as much fun as WoW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many believe the future MMOs will follow Korea&#8217;s &#8220;Item Shop&#8221; strategy. There is money out there but whose is it? Unless the game design changes, the demand for gold and items will still be there.</p>
<p>@Scott: As a game designer, how do you see the success of microtransactions in Korea being applied to future US games and at the same time be as much fun as WoW.</p>
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		<title>By: Juha</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9094</link>
		<dc:creator>Juha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9094</guid>
		<description>So has anyone spent time comparing the merits of the two approaches to control RMT (&quot;socialist&quot; vs. &quot;capitalist&quot;), how it affects the game design (and avoids removing the fun elements) - any success of one approach over the other ?

Just curious thinking about the future game designs...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So has anyone spent time comparing the merits of the two approaches to control RMT (&#8220;socialist&#8221; vs. &#8220;capitalist&#8221;), how it affects the game design (and avoids removing the fun elements) &#8211; any success of one approach over the other ?</p>
<p>Just curious thinking about the future game designs&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Amaranthar</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9089</link>
		<dc:creator>Amaranthar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 03:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9089</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s only one way to take RMT out of gaming, and that&#039;s to make it so that everything that can be gotten in-game has no value (or such little value that it simply doesn&#039;t pay to farm). Otherwise, there will be RMT trade going on of whatever it is that has value to players.

Want to do away with RMT of game MMOney? The game would have to not only sell the MMOney themselves, but sell it so cheaply that farmers can&#039;t undersell them and make anything worthwhile. Or remove MMOney all together from the game. Then you still have items. They&#039;ll sell desirable items, so you have to sell them first, and again, at such cheap rates that they can&#039;t afford to undersell you. Or simply not have items to get in the game, buy them from the company only.

Games like this wouldn&#039;t be much fun, in a well rounded sort of way. They wouldn&#039;t be &quot;worldly&quot; at all. There would be no trade system, since players can just buy everything cheaply, or only get them, by buing them from the game company. In which case, yes a player can sell something to another player, but they&#039;d have to do it at a loss. This kind of game couldn&#039;t have looting, or stealing, or any other traditional PvP type play except combat itself. It wouldn&#039;t have hunter/gatherer play, or RMT traders would once again have an outlet.

I hope you can see that trying to fight RMT by joining RMT would have to take out alot of game play to succeed.

To me, if you want to make a game that has items that can be traded, and has value to the players, then you need to take away the ability to effectively farm. There are ways to do this.
-You can take out static spawns that drop items of value
-You can make static spawns that depend on time of existance to accumulate items of value
-You can let players lose their gear if they die
etc.

This won&#039;t remove RMT completely, but enough things like this can reduce it&#039;s impact enough to make it a non-issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s only one way to take RMT out of gaming, and that&#8217;s to make it so that everything that can be gotten in-game has no value (or such little value that it simply doesn&#8217;t pay to farm). Otherwise, there will be RMT trade going on of whatever it is that has value to players.</p>
<p>Want to do away with RMT of game MMOney? The game would have to not only sell the MMOney themselves, but sell it so cheaply that farmers can&#8217;t undersell them and make anything worthwhile. Or remove MMOney all together from the game. Then you still have items. They&#8217;ll sell desirable items, so you have to sell them first, and again, at such cheap rates that they can&#8217;t afford to undersell you. Or simply not have items to get in the game, buy them from the company only.</p>
<p>Games like this wouldn&#8217;t be much fun, in a well rounded sort of way. They wouldn&#8217;t be &#8220;worldly&#8221; at all. There would be no trade system, since players can just buy everything cheaply, or only get them, by buing them from the game company. In which case, yes a player can sell something to another player, but they&#8217;d have to do it at a loss. This kind of game couldn&#8217;t have looting, or stealing, or any other traditional PvP type play except combat itself. It wouldn&#8217;t have hunter/gatherer play, or RMT traders would once again have an outlet.</p>
<p>I hope you can see that trying to fight RMT by joining RMT would have to take out alot of game play to succeed.</p>
<p>To me, if you want to make a game that has items that can be traded, and has value to the players, then you need to take away the ability to effectively farm. There are ways to do this.<br />
-You can take out static spawns that drop items of value<br />
-You can make static spawns that depend on time of existance to accumulate items of value<br />
-You can let players lose their gear if they die<br />
etc.</p>
<p>This won&#8217;t remove RMT completely, but enough things like this can reduce it&#8217;s impact enough to make it a non-issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Please</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9088</link>
		<dc:creator>Please</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 03:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9088</guid>
		<description>Does anyone play WoW as an economy simulator? I was under the impression that current MMOGs have forgone robust economies in exchange for simple quests and a modifiable hot-key bar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone play WoW as an economy simulator? I was under the impression that current MMOGs have forgone robust economies in exchange for simple quests and a modifiable hot-key bar.</p>
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		<title>By: Please</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9087</link>
		<dc:creator>Please</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 03:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9087</guid>
		<description>Does anyone play WoW as an economy simulator?  I was under the impression that current MMOGs have forgone robust economies in exchange for simple quests and a modifiable hot-key bar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone play WoW as an economy simulator?  I was under the impression that current MMOGs have forgone robust economies in exchange for simple quests and a modifiable hot-key bar.</p>
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		<title>By: J.</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9093</link>
		<dc:creator>J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9093</guid>
		<description>Shouldn&#039;t have to apologize for any RL leanings about economy. Games are supposed to be fun escapism.  Concerns about economy usually aren&#039;t about making games more fun, they&#039;re about keeping them from being made not-fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn&#8217;t have to apologize for any RL leanings about economy. Games are supposed to be fun escapism.  Concerns about economy usually aren&#8217;t about making games more fun, they&#8217;re about keeping them from being made not-fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Jadawin</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9092</link>
		<dc:creator>Jadawin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9092</guid>
		<description>The funny thing is that I am a staunch capitalist, but I absolutely despise RMT and what it has done to WoW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The funny thing is that I am a staunch capitalist, but I absolutely despise RMT and what it has done to WoW.</p>
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		<title>By: Angry.Bob</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9091</link>
		<dc:creator>Angry.Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9091</guid>
		<description>Jolly Pirate Lum said &quot;Asian consumers are happy with it, but it makes most Western consumers recoil&quot;

I think &quot;Western consumers recoil out loud, but in private a sizeable  number actually use the service&quot; would be more accurate. It &#039;s the equivalent of the Porn industry in the 80&#039;s. Very few people would admit to using it, but enough people really did to keep the industry blossoming. Plan for RMT tto happen via 3rd parties in Project X no matter what you do, unless you include it yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jolly Pirate Lum said &#8220;Asian consumers are happy with it, but it makes most Western consumers recoil&#8221;</p>
<p>I think &#8220;Western consumers recoil out loud, but in private a sizeable  number actually use the service&#8221; would be more accurate. It &#8217;s the equivalent of the Porn industry in the 80&#8217;s. Very few people would admit to using it, but enough people really did to keep the industry blossoming. Plan for RMT tto happen via 3rd parties in Project X no matter what you do, unless you include it yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Crystall</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9090</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Crystall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 16:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9090</guid>
		<description>Well,

A company generating in-game cash directly is afaik a bad idea.  It&#039;s inflationary, for starters. Allowing trade between players for &quot;real world&quot; currency dosn&#039;t directly increase the amount of cash in the economy in the same way.  Actually, Eve&#039;s &quot;we print gametime&quot; RMT has allways struck me as the best idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well,</p>
<p>A company generating in-game cash directly is afaik a bad idea.  It&#8217;s inflationary, for starters. Allowing trade between players for &#8220;real world&#8221; currency dosn&#8217;t directly increase the amount of cash in the economy in the same way.  Actually, Eve&#8217;s &#8220;we print gametime&#8221; RMT has allways struck me as the best idea.</p>
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		<title>By: CmdrSlack</title>
		<link>http://brokentoys.org/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/comment-page-1/#comment-9095</link>
		<dc:creator>CmdrSlack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/this-isnt-sparter/#comment-9095</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that the future for handling RMT really does lie in the &quot;partnering with publishers&quot; realm. While the Korean market != the Western market, I think we&#039;re seeing a generation of future gamers being raised on microtransactions in the U.S. With monetized kids games (like WebKinz), it seems to me that we&#039;re teaching our kids that &quot;cash for in-game boondoggles is ok.&quot; That&#039;s fine with me.

I&#039;ve purchased $L for Second Life to help move along a building project a bit faster (more land = more prims = faster prototyping of large buildings). I&#039;ve never purchased cash or items in a normal MMO, largely because if a game makes me buy shit to feel like I&#039;m having fun, I refuse to play. Somehow the utilitarian purchase of cash in SL was different. Likely because that world was built on rock n&#039; roll. And furries. And Gor. And RMT.  But I digress.

Taking the business in-house will only do so much to prevent third party sales. IIRC, there are still plenty of opportunities to buy shit for EQ2 on non-SOEbay servers. Sure, these companies are doing stuff with shell corps and subsisidaries that seems hinky to us on the outside, but when you try to use your RMT money hats to purchase content companies, it makes perfect sense to at least put forth the image that your content enterprises are separate but equal to your RMT concerns. Until the quality of &quot;reportage&quot; on those content sites falls thru the floor, I would hesitate to call them the Fox News of MMO-related content sites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that the future for handling RMT really does lie in the &#8220;partnering with publishers&#8221; realm. While the Korean market != the Western market, I think we&#8217;re seeing a generation of future gamers being raised on microtransactions in the U.S. With monetized kids games (like WebKinz), it seems to me that we&#8217;re teaching our kids that &#8220;cash for in-game boondoggles is ok.&#8221; That&#8217;s fine with me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve purchased $L for Second Life to help move along a building project a bit faster (more land = more prims = faster prototyping of large buildings). I&#8217;ve never purchased cash or items in a normal MMO, largely because if a game makes me buy shit to feel like I&#8217;m having fun, I refuse to play. Somehow the utilitarian purchase of cash in SL was different. Likely because that world was built on rock n&#8217; roll. And furries. And Gor. And RMT.  But I digress.</p>
<p>Taking the business in-house will only do so much to prevent third party sales. IIRC, there are still plenty of opportunities to buy shit for EQ2 on non-SOEbay servers. Sure, these companies are doing stuff with shell corps and subsisidaries that seems hinky to us on the outside, but when you try to use your RMT money hats to purchase content companies, it makes perfect sense to at least put forth the image that your content enterprises are separate but equal to your RMT concerns. Until the quality of &#8220;reportage&#8221; on those content sites falls thru the floor, I would hesitate to call them the Fox News of MMO-related content sites.</p>
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