• Naladini

    Voicechat might be a great way to retransmit a ballgame without the express written consent of major league baseball…

  • http://hgamer.blogspot.com Heartless_

    ROFL! Classic.

  • blachawk

    Please, that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Voice chat needs to stay third party.

  • TPRJones

    As long as players have good in-game tools to control access to their own guild and personal channels, and the ability to mute anyone they want to not hear anymore on public channels, then it’s no different from dealing with chat spam. In-game will be better than third-party, because of those tools being built into the system instead of relying on a third-party system, where it’s harder to verify guild membership and other such things.

    There’s always problems with everything, just design for solutions. It’s not that hard.

  • Sullee

    As long as players have good in-game tools to control access to their own guild and personal channels, and the ability to mute anyone they want to not hear anymore on public channels, then it’s no different from dealing with chat spam. In-game will be better than third-party, because of those tools being built into the system instead of relying on a third-party system, where it’s harder to verify guild membership and other such things.

    There’s always problems with everything, just design for solutions. It’s not that hard.

    Not that hard? One of the game companies that is talking about implementing this has fumbled LFG UI for years with several botched attempts. Their UI design consists of an API to enable third-party dev wannabes whilst the stock UI has regressed the MMO client to a facile diablo copy (circa 1997!!!).

    Ironically that same company has floundered keeping up with ingame chat and email spammers and subjected their players to months of what amounts to ingame advertising. So even if it were the same I question their ability to control it or even design it securely.

    And it isn’t the same, not even close. Gender, nationality, age, and on and on are all much more exposed voice vs. text. I’m not saying we should revert to smoke signals but I question the design goals and benefits. I find it hard to believe that the amount of people who want to use voice chat in a game but are blocked by something this will fix (server cost? configuration issues?) to be anything greater than miniscule.

  • Engels

    I’ve seen integrated voice chat implimented on the simplest of MMOs, Aces High II . The user can create custom voice channels with the ability to squelch unwanted ‘joiners’, assuming the rare instances where this would occur (since chat IDs are only known to the creator, who in turn invites people to the channel). I second TPRJones’ opinion that it just can’t be all that hard.

  • Angry.Bob

    People who are against integrated chat or think it would be hard to implement properly are flat out wrong. Seriously, it’s not hard. You add a mute function. Pretty much every griefing problem solved. The end. THe only possible issue is at what level to add it. A minimum of group level is an absolute must.

    Integrated voice is no longer a luxury, or even optional. Integrated voice is a requirement for successful online games on any platform from about 6 months ago on. No game released after that point will be able to get away with not having it.

  • http://cnn.com ubvman

    It may be simple but its a legal minefield the game devs. Its basically developing their own proprietary VOIP system – and there are legal problems selling VOIP services (albeit wrapped in a game) to various countries.

    Wikipedia link to VOIP

    Lots of countries restrict the use of VOIP or ban it outright. You can look at the list in the article. EU and Korea has some restrictions – big MMOG markets, do the game devs/publishers want legal hassles selling their games there?

    Nope, CS and legal issues (on the VOIP front) are the killers here IMHO. Too much hassle for something that can be accommodated with a third party client.

  • blachawk

    “People who are against integrated chat or think it would be hard to implement properly are flat out wrong. Seriously, it’s not hard. You add a mute function. ”

    That would be about as effective as flagging PKs red.

    The people in favor of integrated voice chat are vastly overestimating the maturity level of the gaming population. Sure, guilds that already use voice chat extensively might not have a problem with this; however, do you realize how many petitions would be plaguing the CS reps if voice chat were part of the game? ‘Legolaz called me a Jew N—-r Bitch because I lost aggro! BAN HIM!!!!’ Have you ever played a BG in WoW and read the kind of crap that people say in the /BG channel? Imagine having to stop ten times during every BG to mute every twelve year old screaming into his mic for people to come help him do whatever task he thinks is of paramount importance.

    Also, I think the use of hateful, racist, and other equally offensive shit-talk would skyrocket. People refrain from saying things like that in text, because it is easily traceable through the logs. Instead of saying the most offensive, hateful thing they can to someone else, they censor themselves. Call someone a dirty n—-r in zone-wide chat and you’re going to be enjoying your vacation from MMO’s. (In fact I’ve known a number of MMO addicts who did this on purpose to get help quitting the game. Like suicide by cop.) Call someone a dirty n—-r in voice chat and nothing will happen. Your word against his, all that happens is a temporary mute in a temporary channel.

    Have we not learned by now that given the chance to grief other players, far too many people will seize that opportunity and run with it? There would be a massive surge of people emulating the guy in Lum’s link, but they aren’t going to be as nice.

    Anyway, these are roleplaying games. Even though the vast majority of MMO players don’t run around improperly using thees and thous, everyone is still assuming the role they’ve chosen for themselves within the game. I can’t throw fire from my hands any more than the skinny nerd on the other end of the internet can swing a twenty pound axe. Forcing people to dispel the illusions of personality they have created for themselves is a very bad idea.

  • Angry.Bob

    I don’t think I’m overestimating the maturity level of gamers. Even the old ones are annoying, offensive dolts for the most part. I take great personal pride in my own griefing skills. But really, nothing you brought up wasn’t already debated when Valve added native voice to HL and it’s mods. And none of it is an issue. Some one starts bitching about the Jews? Mute. Is calling people names? Mute. Playing an MP3 of the hamsterdance song? Mute. Mute, mute, mute. It’s much more effective than flagging PK’s red because while a red can still kill you, once you mute someone you’re done having to hear them. Besides, if someone you’re grouped with is calling you a stupid Jew for losing aggro, chances are excellent you’re better off kicking them from the group and /ignoring them as well.

    As far as it being a VOIP, why would it be an issue for a MMO, but hasn’t been for Live or Steam? Am I missing MS or Valve having complex legal arrangements with foreign governments so people can buy Half Life or a 360 there?

    Like I said before, native chat is required. Especially with games like WAR being on the 360 as well as the PC. How are the people using the 360 version supposed to communicate?

  • http://hgamer.blogspot.com Heartless_

    Obviously people thinking that a simple mute would solve all the issues has not logged into any Xbox Live games. You simply can’t mute the asshats fast enough.

  • http://www.nude-in-public.com Bob_the_Barker

    MMO games are designed to be cooperative and multiplayer. Players work together to achieve something. To speak to one another is a vastly superior form of communication over text. (No different than using a cell phone to talk to someone is much better than sending a txt message. A lot more information can be conveyed in 2 seconds of talk then in 1 minute of writing a txt message.)

    Also, I may be alone in this feeling, but I have a stronger friendship connection with my guildmates when I hear their voice because I can become friends with that person instead of some animated toon on my screen.

    With all that said, voice chat should remain 3rd party for two reasons. First, all the poential legal and CS problems would be another burden placed on the game company. A second, I’ve been unimpressed with the software engineering ability of MMO companies that frankly, they would screw it up for years and years before they got it kinda right.

  • Daztur

    You shouldn’t even need to mute people. Just allow people to choose who they can hear. I’d set it so that I could hear /group /guild /say and friends but for everyone else I’d set it so I couldn’t hear any of them. Problem solved.

  • http://www.damnedvulpine.com J.

    Disney’s “secret friends” system, that they’ve implemented for Toontown Online and had for Treasure of Atlantis multiplayer (and probably will for Pirates of the Caribbean Online) is the best solution. Let it be easy to make friends and recognize people by avatar name, but don’t allow any communication beyond a rich set of macros, voice or text, without trading codes.

  • Amaranthar

    It seems to me that, since any individual can be known by the server in the MMO, that a simple ban function would work well here. But that still leaves problems. Most of the difficulties come when there is no active MOD for the channel, or they don’t know how to work the tools. That’s going to be a problem with lots of “rookies” to the technology/system in an MMO. Add the difficulties of CS people being able to track, and the sheer volume of problems.

    It’s ok with me if whatever MMORPG I play never has Vent. There’s something very immersion busting about that powerfull mage or warrior speaking in the voice of the 12 year old. Especially when he’s boasting alot.

  • Heather Sinclair

    There are MMO games that already have integrated voicechat, and it’s not the horrible disaster that some people seem to want to make it out to be. It’s actually very useful to not have to deal with figuring out which ventrilo servers to use.

    I spent an awful lot of time playing DDO while working on it, and most of that time was in pick up groups, and honestly the worst I ever got was overenthusiastic kids who went “YAY TREASURE” every time they saw a chest. Also, just to be obvious, I say this as someone who can instantly be identified as “omg irl girl” via in-game voice chat, and the only time I ever got harassed about it was on a ventrilo server while playing daoc, not on in-game voicechat.

    Don’t try to do voice chat for general chat, and restrict it to groups and raids. Players already know how to boot people from groups who are idiots, and voice chat just helps you recognize who those people are faster. If you don’t want to use it, you can turn it off, you’re never required to use it. I played with plenty of people who never spoke a word, and preferred to type everything.

    It irritates me now when I have to use a third party vent server when I want to use voice chat in game. It’s a feature that is so useful, that it would suck if companies decided not to do it because of knee-jerk reactions to it.

  • Ebenezer

    J.
    In case you aren’t aware, the kids in toontown online have developed an elaborate emote-language to allow them to trade secret keys ingame.

    Granted, its willing, but I’ve watched 2 players doing this, and I could easily have copied the code myself (with some translation help from my niece) if I was interested in cyber-stalking 9yr olds of indeterminate sex.

    Don’t ask me how it got started..

  • http://www.damnedvulpine.com J.

    I don’t doubt there is such a thing, Eb. Figured there would be one, eventually. But they have to work at it, and it must be extremely consenting.

  • http://www.corpnews.com Andrew Crystall

    Yes, voice chat can be hard. It’s why I’m interested in Teamspeak 3 and the claims about game integration.

    And the “general spam” type voice? Er… don’t let public channels be voice. Party and guild only.

  • Staryx

    I’ve played both DDO and LOTRO and I have to say, the integrated voice chat for groups is a nice addition, but it seems no one ever has it set up right. I can never hear anyone unless I crank my speaker volume, which in turn means I have to turn down the in-game volumes. And then when I’m done I have to mess with it all again to get it back to normal. Too much friggin’ work to hear people I probably don’t want to listen to in the first place. Recording volume… Turn it up people. :P