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Bring Back Jolly Pirate Nicknames, Biyotch
Someone’s not happy with Mythic’s policy on developers posting under their real names.
There is a post there made by Mark Jacobs. Some of you may not know who he is. He’s the guy who used to own Mythic and with the buy-out he turned into a “VP” at EA. He said some things that really bothered me. First off he said
We will always speak directly to the community as ourselves (no aliases, no jolly pirate nicknames, etc.)
Now this has been part of UO culture since it was borne. We are talking… Lord British himself. Everyone who knows anything about UO knows this. But alas! They have taken our dev teams monikers out of the credits. I guess Mark Jacobs finds our dev teams “jolly pirate” nicknames unimportant. Well here’s one UO player who has played long enough to know it’s part of the game itself.
Most of you would think that if the developers posting as “Scott” instead of “Lum” was the worst problem you had with your MMO, you’re doing fairly well. But if you don’t think jolly pirate names are serious business, think again!
This is NOT about Kingdom Reborn. This is about Mythic kidnapping. Really I (and anyone else I talk to about this) feel that Mythic has kidnapped our game and I don’t know if we will be able to get it back. There is no ransom.
In other news, Stratics is still around, I’m not in the DAOC credits any more (under either my real name or my jolly pirate nickname), and UO’s web site has more jolly pirate names than you can shake an EA executive at.
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about 3 years ago
It’s a mordant day when you suddenly realize that, no matter how long you live, and how much the world improves in the interim, you will not read your last bitter manifesto until the day you die, or shortly before.
about 3 years ago
I’d kill someone for a jolly pirate nickname. I mean, I work for a company that makes a pirate game, and I have a goddamn Greek nickname. WHY?! WHY CAN’T I BE ONE OF THE EIGHTEEN THOUSAND PERMUTATIONS OF ‘JACK SPARROW’?!
*weeps*
about 3 years ago
Hah. It really does take all kinds.
about 3 years ago
I will say that you don’t catch lawyers and dentists using a fake name. They use their real name, they stand proudly by the things they do, etc. If we are going to be a grown up industry, the time for the professionals to be known as Twinklefart Fairytoes is now over. I also believe, with an overwhelming amount of proof on my side, that people tend to behave more professionally on the web when they use their real names. They are less prone to childish behavior, outbursts, and personal insults – and that’s just the DEVELOPERS.
For heaven’s sake, even Lum calls himself “Scott” now.
However, I’m not stupid. I can think of at least one person who uses his real name on the boards and is still a shortsighted blowhard without the originality god gave a cloned sheep. So I know my preference for real names from industry professionals is not a cure all.
And finally, UO is a different animal, and is entitled to a grandfather clause. FirstName “Nickname” LastName honors the tradition and still gives credit to the human being taking professional pride in their work.
about 3 years ago
Bah, everyone knows your real name is Buttercup “Sanya” Sweetbuns anyway, you poser.
about 3 years ago
I always thought it was just a love for G.I. Joe.
Professionalism/not professionalism doesn’t even fit into the equation. If these jokers are complaining about not having Lord British anymore, they’re seven years too late. I haven’t read the entire thread, but do they even know how long UO has been supported by EA (largely) outside of Austin?
This is the Internet. These are MMO gamers, and rudderless ones with arguably the highest degree of entitlement out of anyone. We should probably assume ignorance rather than justifiable indignance.
Then again, if gamers took it upon themselves to be more informed, not just about how to play the games they love but who’s actually steering those beloved ships, would they be so passionate as to make the kind of posts referenced above? Not to put too fine a point on it, but we might be looking at an endangered species specimen: the genuinely passionate MMO player, committed to his chosen timewaster.
Who are we to judge?
about 3 years ago
We use aliases regularly in my side of the computer world to this day. But then the military is fond of things like that so when the computer security world interacts with it, it kinda fits well. What doesn’t have an alias has an abbreviation of some kind… and I’d rather give them an alias than risk them coming up with an abbreviation to refer to me as.
about 3 years ago
Yeah, true. Now I’m stuck with Buttercup. Again.
about 3 years ago
I couldn’t disagree more. Do the lawyers and dentists who play the games you work on use their real names for characters? Not the point? I think context here is pretty darn important.
Maybe the industry has grown and the personal interactions that players had with developers is gone. It really isn’t difficult to understand why they would prefer to think of those industry pros as players though (with player names). I think everyone would rather interact with a pro who is also a knowledgable and passionate player as opposed to some off-shored schlepp who is reading from a script.
And be honest, those of you on the inside have developed a cult of personality such that yes, the players might know your real names. I can only imagine that there are a lot of downsides (especially if your moniker is something sophomoric and inappropriate) however the professional thing isn’t to use real names the professional thing is to not have any identity outside the industry. Can you name 10 OS devs\designers? What about 10 industry professionals who worked on your word processor? No?
You make games and interact with game players. Not using your real name is about making the players comfortable and maybe even an attempt to guide player names towards the type of names appropriate to the environment you are trying to build; lord knows a lot of players need that guidance (don’t even get me started on that, F Tigole and Qeynos).
I don’t think I nor anybody else gives a rip what name you use on your book or at a professional conference. That isn’t what these players were complaining about.
about 3 years ago
Interestingly, the CoH developers post under the names of the signature characters. When a developer leaves (for whatever reason, good or ill), the name gets assigned to someone new.
about 3 years ago
MBJ’s post says, “The important things to remember are that the policies that were in place from day one at Mythic (then Interworld) and even before that, at my old company, remain intact today. We will always speak directly to the community as ourselves (no aliases, no jolly pirate nicknames, etc.)”
That’s incorrect – the ‘no jolly pirate nicknames’ thing wasn’t there since day one, and anyone who delved beyond the surface of Mythic knows that. I remember the big change-o presto on VN and the internals when all the Dev usernames were changed.
Kinda weird.
about 3 years ago
I can see it both ways. I think honestly that the “dev naming convention” is part of a game’s culture more than anything. It’s going to be different for each game and each company, but that’s ok.
Truthfully, dev handles aren’t anonymous in these days of forum trackers and google-searchable blogs. If Silversword posts something that ticks off half the playerbase, it’s not going to matter whether his posting name is Albert Vasrecht or whether it’s Silversword, players are still going to hate him either way, and even if he were to change that posting name the next day, players would still figure out who it was pretty quickly. Anyone who thinks a handle insulates them quite honestly shouldn’t be posting on game forums in any official capacity whatsoever.
Regardless though, whether your dev team goes by their real names or whether they go by handles, it needs to be a decision made early on. Switching halfway through the game’s life is probably just going to confuse players, as their old benevolent (or hated and feared) gods are driven out and replaced by new ones with strange and unpronouncable names.
And Sanya, since no one has pointed it out yet, you realize when the news broke that you were leaving Mythic quite a few websites called you “Tweety” and not Sanya, right? Even though it’s been years since the last Tweety rant was posted. But maybe that’s because gamers collectively have a long memory
about 3 years ago
The Community Manager Class got nerfed harder than a Smite Cleric after EA took over.
about 3 years ago
I think the outcry is mostly about it being a sign that the gaming company is even more visibly, “the man”.
about 3 years ago
Some how I doubt the name “Tersic” will ever be used again. As a customer I’m unable to avoid products and companies that employ that person. It’s a small point but a point, regardless.
about 3 years ago
I was called Tweety when the news broke because as a private citizen and a player on the internet, I used a handle. When I “went pro,” I switched to my real name.
I am nothing if not consistent.
By the way, when I was in the game world of one of my games, I used a handle. But if I were in the game in my capacity as a representative of the company, I felt that it was important I be readily identified AS a representative of the company, and not depend on the (false) idea that “everyone” would know who I was. In every game, most players do not read the boards, many don’t read the sites, and trust me when I say that thousands of Camelot players have no idea I existed.
Again, though, the name issue is something where different games have different legacies, and I readily acknowledge that. Players and professionals being indistinguishable is not healthy for a game in its early years and leads to some seriously weird stuff that gives rise to entire rant sites. But ten years in? Grandfather clause.
about 3 years ago
I’m with Sanya on this one. Using your real name not only gives off the professional vibe, but it also gives a person more accountability for what he/she is saying. A moniker lets that person hide behind it like a shield. People who hide behind monikers can be complete and utter morons. I know this first-hand from my earlier internet years. Tying your real name to your online posting makes you think twice before you hit the submit button……. I’m still learning how to read over it a second time
about 3 years ago
about 3 years ago
You know as you read back over the names of the UO releases one name kind of jumps out at you…. Samuri Empire???
I’m long gone from the game and god knows we need the asian l3wt to prop up the US playerbase, and thats fine. But…
I mean do developers ever look back at what they’ve been forced to do to these games and just regret their career choice?
WAAAAOOOOOO Saumuri of London WAAAAOOOOOOOO
about 3 years ago
I actually really don’t like this policy, but I comply all the same simply due to me being a Lawfully Neutral type of guy.
I’m a different sort though, I got into the industry through my handle – it IS my industry name. But beyond that, my handle is a nickname I’ve gone by in real life since I was knee high. This policy has had me thinking, more than once, about the ramifications of adding Cougar to my name legally. (I already respond to Cougar being spoken quietly in a cube down then way as if it Craig that was spoken). I suspect that if I ever caught flak for something related to the issue I’d start the paperwork the next day.
I realize that I am most certainly in the minority here, and there are certainly people that abuse their handle’s anonymity – or perhaps not abuse but stretch the boundaries of what should be said.
Either way; I am Cougar. I am Craig Turner. These two statements will never change, regardless of any rule or policy.
about 3 years ago
If you read what she posted, you can get the sense that it’s not really the name issue that’s bothering her, but rather the fact that Jacobs is cutting the ties to some degree between the players and Devs.
about 3 years ago
Your real name travels with you. Your funny pirate name does not. If Sanya is always posting as Sanya, her reputation will travel from job to job with her. If she posts as Tweety at one job and Buttercup at another, only the most obsessive of stalkers (i.e. us) will know the connection. Pirate-names are forgiven in early games, but as the genre matures the face of the company needs to mature along with it. The CR critters are the face of the company. These days anyone using a pirate-name makes me think that they might be trying to hide some infamy at a previous company. The Tweety name can be burried. Sanya cannot.
about 3 years ago
I don’t see how it’s cutting ties to anyone. You’re at work, you’re doing a job, you are Person A.
When you’re at home screwing around, you’re Sir McScrewsAroundAtHome, or what have you.
There’s no “We’re going to stop you all from talking”, there doesn’t appear to be a “hey, and X is my character name in game!” policy (though there may be). It’s simply a policy of “hay kids, when posting on a forum as a company rep, you’re Fred from Accounting, nothing else.”
It seems logical and adult to me.
about 3 years ago
Isn’t there room for considering the distinction between people that have real names that are more or less unique and the “Bob Jones’” of the world? Also, pen names seem to be accepted in literary circles, why not in software? I don’t think that the use of real names is necessarily important, employees of a complany can be clearly identified as such otherwise (red names, subtitles, etc…), though the use of a consistent nicname during tenure at a given organization should be considered. The “grown up” argument seems stuffy, we’re talking about making games afterall.
about 3 years ago
A good balance is to use the real first name “Nickname” last name format.
about 3 years ago
That’s usually what I do. My forum handle is Calandryll, but I sign my posts, Jonathan “Calandryll” Hanna. When I do interviews or talk outside of my community, it’s always with both (or just my real name) as well.
I don’t think it’s a huge deal either way, but I do think players like developer handles. At fan gatherings, even after telling them to call me Jon, most players would stall rather call me Cal. It was like a pet name and they really liked it. Most of them likewise preferred that I called them by their in-game name as well. It made them feel a connection that using real names didn’t provide.
Overall I don’t think it shows any less or more professionalism or commitment to use a handle vs. a real name and you can make arguments for either. That said, I’ve always highly recommended that people use their real name at least in their signature and definitely when speaking outside of the community if for no other reason than to build your reputation with your real name if it ever comes time to find a new job.
about 3 years ago
Kalain, this si what I’m talking about, these are from separate posts in the thread by Flutter….
So, it’s about more than just the nick names. It’s the whole thing.
I don’t happen to agree with Flutter, I think GMs should stay away from players on any personal level at all. But damn, ya gotta give her credit. She’s right about the UO culture and what’s happening to it. The sad thing is that she’s even more right than she knows, from my perspective.
about 3 years ago
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Mythic’s previously very prominent and vocal community manager left very recently. I wonder if this factored into Flutter’s concern formula.
Who else does community for Mythic? Did they hire/acquire/inherit community managers after they took over UO? Did they relocate to Mythic’s HQ, or are they on the other side of the country, where UO’s been run previously?
Why does this guy/gal think asking on a message board, especially a non-official one, makes any difference? Maybe there’s something wrong with previous administrations, that they would devote time and effort to making what on its face is a meaningless statement (“We can’t tell you anything real, because we’re busy!”) just so users like Flutter can feel good about him/herself for successfully casting Kal Vas Red Name?
about 3 years ago
“Who else does community for Mythic?”
That would be me – I have been the CM for UO since well before Sanya left. I was a new hire after the acquisition (the old CM moved to design.) For a number of reasons, mostly logistical, I am conveniently located… in Austin. Which is not where either the UO team or the Mythic headquarters are located.
When the playerbase spends the better part of a day inventing conspiracy theories for why the designers aren’t posting on Stratics… why, yes, I do step in and point out that we’re in the middle of crunch. It’s not a meaningless statement at all – it’s a direct counter to “The devs aren’t posting because Evil Mark Jacobs has EATEN THEIR SOULS!!!”
And while Stratics is a “non-official” message board, we don’t have “official” boards, so they are functionally very similar to official boards. I spend much of my day reading and posting there – that is the largest part of our English-speaking forum community.
about 3 years ago
But….they did sign a contract, did they not? I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that, nor that I myself wouldn’t require it too, just sayin’.
about 3 years ago
Sanya,
I think the very key point is the context in which you are communicating. When you are on a forum where everyone else is using jolly pirate nicknames (such as forums where your players hang out) it is very much out-of-context to post with your official name as your handle. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t sign your post with your name, but I do think that there is an implied contract on the forums, such that I agree to call you by your jolly pirate name, and you agree to call me by mine. To some extent it’s breaking with the fantasy of the environment to do otherwise. Now in your case this is less of an issue since Sanya isn’t exactly a common name, and I’m sure on most forums someone posting as “Sanya” is less out of place than someone posting as any of: “Mark” “Mark Johnson” or another variant thereof.
With that said, I do think there is a way to strike a professional balance, which is to sign your post with your real name, such as in the format suggested by Calandryll. I think this strikes a balance, as it still conveys the “I personally am backing up what I say, and letting you know who I am, so I can be held accountable” vibe, but it also, just as critically doesn’t break the social conventions of the forum.
Think back to when you were a kid, when you were playing in a fantasy setting with friends, if someone such as a parent interacted with you and refused to acknowledge the setting, it was a disruptive and unwelcome experience. For example, imagine you told your mom that your imaginary friend was sitting in a chair, there is a big difference between your mom then sitting in that specific chair, or respectfully sitting in a different chair so as not to disrupt the fantasy environment. I would argue that if you are on a forum where everyone is communicating via nicknames, refusing to give them a similar moniker to refer to you is disuptive to the environment, and quite simply less respectful.
about 3 years ago
I would respectfully point out to my peers speaking out against using “jolly pirate names” that few of them have a name as common as, oh say, “Brian Green”.
Even if you just look at the game industry, there are several other “Brian Green”s. There’s a whole page at MobyGames credited to “Brian Green” that I have not worked on. My page over there has many fewer titles. Even the Wikipedia page on Brian Green (game developer) shows another person (who goes by “The Colonel”) that shares my name.
In college I used to get fan email for Brian Austin Green. Unfortunately it was from teenage girls, and I was probably put on an FBI watch list because of this.
Of course, Scott does also have this problem, but he’s got fewer competitors within the game industry itself, at least.
Compare this to a Google search of “Sanya -China” (to get rid of hits for the Chinese city with the same name) and you’ll (currently) find the blog of some outspoken game developer person…
So, some of us use the pseudonyms in order to become less anonymous instead of moreso. Something to keep in mind.
about 3 years ago
Psychochild, so when will the real world adapt this nickname thing for better recognition? I mean, in old days they did just this (such as in Eric the Red and Leaf Ericson), and still do in parts of the world (such as the Middle East where names include city of origin). So it’s nothing new. And it certainly would give us each a more unique identity, might even help against online theft, etc.
But then again, getting a drivers license with a name like Psychochild might be a bit tricky.
about 3 years ago
Here we are speaking about “red names”, right? Not just random posts on a forum. Because I really hope there isn’t one policy that forbids devs from posting whatever the hell they want outside their job under whatever nickname they want.
So if the case is the “red name” I really don’t see the problem. This isn’t about Mythic, this is everywhere. Everyone knows to who a nickname belongs. Everyone knew Raph was C3PO. Everyone knows who’s Tigole. Those who wouldn’t recognize those nicknames would recognize even less an original name.
So what’s the difference between “Tigole” and “Jeff Kaplan”? None. You really believe that he would post differently under his real name?
I post as either Abalieno or HRose. If I’d use my real name absolutely *no one* would recognize me. My real name is way more anonymous than my nickname.
Same for Lum. I’m sure there are more people out there who recognize more “Lum the Mad” than “Scott Jennings”.
And using a real name just because it looks more professional is ..yeah, kind of stupid.
about 3 years ago
Sigh. I said, in my first post… Firstname “Nickname” Lastname is fine.
I think that construction should be mandatory in signature files, so everyone knows who you are – from the most in the know veteran to the newest forum newb. If you think someone who does not obsessively follow gaming gossip magically knows that Jeff Kaplan is Tig, you are wrong. I am speaking from a great deal of experience.
Also, policy should work WITH human nature, not against it, and humans are less accountable when they feel anonymous.
If you think there is no difference between the way people post under their real names versus anonymous handles, I would suggest you only know a very small number of strong minded people who don’t go in for false representation. For everyone else, false representation is the main draw of the internet – Be Someone Else. Or possibly Be Myself, Only, The Way I Really Want To Be.
You are forgetting how small the online game commentary community really is, if you compare the behavior of a small group of pros and semi-pros to general humans. I’ve been seeing some of the same names posting around here for a decade now. The rules that apply to an elite group that adhere to a certain standard do not apply to all of humanity.
I am enjoying this chat, BTW. There are as many ways to handle this situation as there are community managers.
about 3 years ago
I like the handles as I think they add flavor, and I think that the more prominent posters in any given game community get well known by their handle (and in some cases, the handle chosen lends insight into the person who so chose). Personally, I take my handles from game to game with me, and they are also used in my blogging. So far as the internet is concerned my name IS Loredena, unless I’m talking about crafting when it instead is Serenya/Serrennial. I don’t use my ‘real’ name online, regardless of context, and haven’t in more then 10 years (the internet is forever, and I can find USENET posts in my real name from college, 20 years ago).
Still, when posting in an ‘official’ capacity, there should be something that ties the handle to the person. I like what I see most of the time on the SOE boards, which was also referenced above, wherein the posting handle is what one searches by, but the signature is First name “handle” Last name.
about 3 years ago
Lum didn’t credit me for pointing that fucking retarded thread out. Thankfully I know that he is Scott Jennings, so I can hold him accountable for his actions!
Flutter’s main thrust was that UO’s soul was being destroyed by Mythic. This is a stupid argument, since EA (and Kirk “Runesabre” Black, damn him!) destroyed UO’s soul about 10 times since 1997. It’s even more stupid that she clings to the idea of developers posting on message boards as anything other than a huge distraction for people working on the game. You can’t have meaningful conversations with 10,000 people, it just doesn’t work. Community people can cherry pick topics to reply to in order to make the message board posters feel they are being heard because that’s their entire job: managing the group of lackwit retards that post on MMORPG message boards.
Anywho, to cap off an extremely useless post, I haven’t used an internet handle in 10 years. I really don’t know why, other than the thought of people calling me Soulflame or something in real life would be exceedingly fucked up. When I interface with clients (which I do a lot of, I’m an IT Consultant) I don’t use nicknames. I sign my name, list my title(s), and provide my contact information at the bottom of every email. When I meet someone face to face, I look them in the eye and say, “Hi, Ray Goodrich, nice to meet you” – or something to that effect. Using a handle seems disingenious and unprofessional to me out of game and in a business enviroment (which is exactly what a MMORPG’s message board is), but that might just be me.
about 3 years ago
Oh, here’s one of Flutter’s posts in that thread. You determine whether or not she’s a lunatic.
Ok let’s say they decided (“They” being Mythic) (and this is all speculation now not like the facts I have already posted) but let’s just say “they” decided the best course of action after Warhammie was released would be to *merge* Dark Age of Camelot and Ultima Online. Call it Dark Age of Ultima or whatever. (I bet at least one person from the higher chain has thought of this)
Well, what would prevent them from doing so? Perhaps the games history. (Core Culture) Perhaps the way we do things is unique. Maybe, and I don’t think it’s a stretch, those who play DAoC feel the same way.
Before we get to the point where they would be able to simply just merge the two games into one someone should get up and say “Hey! This isn’t what we want! We don’t care how “you” do things at Mythic!”
Some of the things that make us who we are have been posted by me in this thread. Those things have been, or are in the process of being, taken away from us every single day.
Some folks don’t care and that is sad… perhaps it’s because we’ve lost so much already. It isn’t too late to start caring though.
She also rages about company communication policy (telling employees what they can and cannot say):
I do wonder if Darkscribe’s posting falls under the same “Mythic umbrella of rules” (ie: no posting without approval) and that’s why he is quiet. I imagine it must be quite demoralizing I think to have to gain permission to post things to your fan base and not be allowed to freely post… especially being governed by a company “your” company bought (and not visa versa)
Yeah, she’s not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but she’s definitely a tool. A delusional one.
about 3 years ago
Amaranthar wrote:
But then again, getting a drivers license with a name like Psychochild might be a bit tricky.
The difference her is how memorable I want to be. Last thing I want is a police officer to look at my license and think, “Oh, it’s that Psychochild character again!”
However, how memorable I am determines my career in the game industry. If I post something insightful with a common name, it’s less likely to stick in someone’s mind than if I use a pseudonym. In this case, I don’t mind if someone who wants to give me a contract or a job says, “Oh, it’s that Psychochild character again!” I am almost certain this is the reason why I have my current position working as a contract lead designer.
Sanya wrote:
Sigh. I said, in my first post… Firstname “Nickname” Lastname is fine.
Funny enough, Just changed my name to that format here on Scott’s blog. When I tried that format before, his comment system cried. Now that he’s upgraded, it looks like I can actually use that format again.
If you think there is no difference between the way people post under their real names versus anonymous handles, I would suggest you only know a very small number of strong minded people who don’t go in for false representation.
I think you’re reading more into this than there is. You did originally use “Tweety” as a nom de plume to hide your identity, but not everyone does the same thing. If you were to start posting again as “Tweety”, you would certainly not enjoy the same level of anonymity, and I don’t think you would honestly believe you could hide behind the name.
Similarly, I’ve always used “Psychochild” as a way to identify me easier online. And, while there are some people that use the name “Psychochild” online, it’s much less common than “Brian Green”. Admittedly, my full given name does give a hit on my resume as the #1 Google result (the only place I use it), but there are still a lot of other people with the same unfortunately common name. As Loredena mentions, Usenet is forever. I have plausible deniability for any of my original posts signed “Brian Green”, but the ones signed “Psychochild” are harder to ignore.
For me, a pseudonym also helps in administrating the game. If someone I don’t know very well tries to call me “Brian” when I have to be the disciplinarian on Meridian 59, I instantly know they’re trying to form a friendly bond in order to avoid punishment. If someone calls me “Psychochild” offline, then I know they probably haven’t had time to get to know the “real” me, and I should spend time with them if I can. (Yeah, I’m an introvert and social cues are harder for me to pick up offline.)
I am enjoying this chat, BTW. There are as many ways to handle this situation as there are community managers.
Agreed. It is an interesting issue to think about.
about 3 years ago
Folks,
Well, for what it’s worth, my two cents on this stuff:
1) As to why no nicknames, I’ve always believed that once I started getting paid for making games that I, and anyone who worked for me, should deal with the community as ourselves. It’s a policy I’ve followed for about 20 years and it’s one I truly believe in. I always post as me and have done so pre-Mythic. I have no problem with other people or companies who use pseudonyms but for my companies and people I want our real names (or the names we use in real life even if a bit different from our real names) to be the ones by which we are known. I have no doubt that when most people post under their real name they are more likely to be a bit more, shall we say prudent, about how they represent themselves and the company when they speak to the community. One of the things that I have always hated about the online world is that some people use the anonymity afforded by it to say things that they would never dare say in real life as well as doing things like using multiple names to make and then backup their own points/rants/etc. While this anonymity can be useful in certain situations for individuals, I can’t think of a single one where a corporate entity (small, large or even gigantic) would really benefit by having its people dealing with the general public in the same manner many people and companies do in the online world. As always, I know that there are exceptions on both sides of this issue. I have the utmost respect for people like Brian and others who have posted/interacted under their pseudonyms but in my mind, and since 99% of the people who post on the Internet post under pseudonyms well, I think it is safe to say they represent the type of person who can post responsible and professional using a pseudonym.
2) I’m kinda surprised that the name thing is bubbling up now since it was one of the first moves we made when Ultima was handed over to Mythic last year. This policy has been in place for a long time and it just seems peculiar that it comes up now, especially since the post that set off this little tempest was a post I made about Warhammer on another site, weird.
3) I find the whole “Mark Jacobs killed UO’s soul” to be a pretty funny concept since when we took over, we could have killed UO:KR and anything else UO related. Instead we supported and helped out on the project (it’s using some of our core tech now) and we have been big UO backers. It’s also no secret that I think very highly of the original UO and of the IP in general.
4) I also have no problem with the first name-handle-last name thing.
5) As far as cutting ties between the players and devs, well, this also isn’t late-breaking news. We have community managers and it is their job to interact with the community. It is not the job of the programmers, artists, etc. to talk with and interact with the community. Devs talking to the community can be a good thing at times but it is truly a double-edged sword. I’ve seen stupid dev posts, stupid CM posts and yes, even stupid “President of the damned company” posts but at the end of the day, if you are fortunate enough to have a great community manager like Sanya at Mythic, it is the CMs job to be primary contact. Now, I think that devs need to talk to the players during development and especially in the case of a game in Beta, it is even more important but once the game is LIVE, it really is time for the devs to take a step in the background and let the CMs do their job. Doing otherwise, especially with a large team and a successful game, can lead to all sorts of totally unnecessary headaches/problems as well as hurt feelings, turf wars and at times, confused players.
6) I think my favorite part of this thread was the post Ray found about Flutter talked about Mythic merging UO and DAoC. I hate to tell Flutter but she’s lost her bet. Though it would be pretty funny, from my perspective, to hear anyone at EA/Mythic talk about it. I’d probably then ask if they would consent to a drug test.
Mark
about 3 years ago
Mark,
Open a pre-ren shard.
Thanks,
Ray “Ray” Goodrich
Internet Poster
Fake Writer
Corpnews.com
about 3 years ago
Ray,
You forgot to say “biyotch” so no pre-ren server for you! In all seriousness though, do you think that there is a lot of support in the community for it? I’ll talk to the UO team as well and get their opinion. I want UO to survive so I’m open to ideas to help it do so. EA is investing a lot of time and money into UO:KR and I hope that we will continue to do so for many years.
Mark
about 3 years ago
This is really interesting. This is the first time I’ve seen a debate about this subject that I’ve taken entirely for granted. All you folks here with experience, I think your opinions are are entirely worthy of respect. I know they’re based on the experiences you’ve had in your years in the business. I’d like to offer a view from a slightly different perspective.
As game developers, we’re in our own little infant corner of the entertainment industry. If we succeed in our jobs (or fail spectacularly enough), people become passionate about the products we create. Passion can be a good thing. There are times it isn’t.
The reactions to things that developers are required to do on a day to day basis are not necessarily guaranteed to be logical and rational. This is something we all know.
I like to think that I do a reasonably good job in my personal interactions with the community. Even that’s no guarantee:
* I had my first and second death threats working with online game communities from age 17-18. Had those two people known me as anything other than an alias and been able to trace that back to my crappy, hundred year old, unsecured apartment in Milwaukee, I would have had no choice but to take it a lot more seriously.
* Ever since having a real name that’s recognizable to some small group of people in said corner of the Internet, I’ve had personal financial information posted there as well.
* Hate sites? Nothing like seeing one containing your address and pictures of your home. Many devs keep their families in one of those. Family safety concerns have caused more than one to opt for relative anonymity in the past, while remaining communicative with our customers in a very positive way. To me, that’s a unique strength of our industry, not a weakness or sign of immaturity.
I truly think you’re all exceptionally smart people, but it’s never occurred to me that anyone would choose any alternative other than “Leave it up to the individual developer’s level of comfort.”
The average developer at the staff level has the potential for all the downside of what could be called “fame,” without the same potential for the upside that comes with it in other segments of the entertainment industry.
As long as I have any say in it, no developer on any team that I’m in charge of will be required to disclose their real name or any other personally identifiable information in public.
Direct dev-to-player communication, managed properly, is an excellent tool to have when running live products. Devs are welcome to use their real name if they choose, they’re welcome to stick to their alias if they don’t. They’re welcome to post in public if they’re good at it, and they’re welcome to opt out entirely if they prefer. Done right, it adds a lot more value than it takes away.
If I have staff who abuse any privilege intentionally or otherwise, I don’t assume that I have a policy issue. I have either a training issue (customer communication being a skill, just like making code or content) or a discipline issue, and it gets fixed as appropriate to the situation.
0.02,
- Scott
about 3 years ago
Zuh? Are you serious? IPY had, what, just shy of a thousand accounts signed up in the first half hour of its life? And that was run by a pack of retards, entirely spread by word of mouth, with no official support. Not to mention the fact that every single time UO is discussed on Corp or F13 or anywhere else, the sentence “Man, pre-Ren UO was way more fun than XYZ” is usually the third post down, and QFT’d by nearly everyone. I’m honestly wondering if you are exhibiting some sick sense of humor by even asking as if it’s a question; whoever is doing your UO community relations needs to be fired for obviously not briefing you on anything relevant to the job at hand.
At this point I think Ray’s little kid knows more about what the UO community (ex OR current) want than everyone at EA…
about 3 years ago
Indeed.
I’m not sure how anyone can buy into the arguement that a) the industry has “grown up” so more professional names should be used whilst simultaneously positing that b) using full names makes the professionals “less prone to childish behavior, outbursts, and personal insults”. Sorry Sanya and MBJ but that doesn’t seem to fit.
In fact, quite the opposite I don’t think most company to customer interactions within the gaming industry are “grown up” at all. This is an industry where today’s players who post rants containing little more than obscenities become tomorrow’s game designers, CM’s melt down on the official forums and are not employees the next day, and devs are accused of dubious practices involving cheating at the very game they make.
If this were professional the customer interactions would be much more formal. CMs wouldn’t give their opinion. The communications would be run by legal, delivered by approved and trained pros. The employees would not be allowed to blog insider information, post on their guild forum, etc. at risk of termination. Devs, designers, CEOs, wouldn’t post at all or if they did it would be guarded, sanitized, and sterile.
I also think that you (meaning Mythic) need to tread softly. I believe at the core the players have a valid concern in that you chose to back a company policy at the expense of a piece of their game culture. I don’t think it is a giant issue nor does it make you the evil new guys who wrecked the game they love but I wouldn’t want to have to try to sell it to those customers either.
about 3 years ago
You have to keep in mind that we’re talking about games… games are supposed to be fun… Jolly Pirate nicknames are clearly more fun than regular, boring old first and last names. Duh!
Plus, lots of other EA studios’ CMs use them.. “APOC”, etc. Why buck the trend?
about 3 years ago
Mark,
I have little doubt that there are enough people out there to support a pre-UO:R shard. I can’t speak as to the cost for EA Mythic to open one, but if say 10,000 accounts are reopened and half of them are still subscribed after 6 months, would that be worthwhile to you? I can’t answer that question but I honestly think that’s a reasonable number and probably pretty far on the conservative end.
Let me point out that there is almost no reason for a UO player that quit years ago to come back to the game in it’s current state. The graphics upgrade is nice, but we both know it’s just a new coat of paint on a car that had it’s V-8 ripped out and replaced with a lawnmower engine. You may get a few former players to look at it and maybe even test drive it, but once they try to drive it the house of cards comes tumbling down.
Honestly I am completely baffled that there has been so much hostility to such a shard from EA in the past. Various player-run shards have been immensely popular, even lacking the stability of a EA-run server and the power of EA advertising. It’s definitely a risk to open a shard like this, but the possible payouts and the powerful publicity generated from it is something to look very seriously at. How many people cut their teeth on UO and would sign up for nothing more than nostalgia? How many people missed the chance to play UO and would sign up to see what all the fuss was about it?
about 3 years ago
I’m going to echo something Scott Hartsman said, but as a player. I mentioned above that so far as the internet is concerned, Loredena IS my name. I do NOT use personally identifiable information in regards to my online persona. Sure, I have referenced the major city I live near, and if someone really wanted to they could tie my handle through my email to me personally, but they’d have to put a bit of effort into it. As a non-public person, I still think it would be a Bad Idea ™ for me to put myself ‘out there’. Anyone can pick up a stalker afterall. Now, for me there is also the question of future employers googling my name (and the reason I would encourage teens everywhere to think twice about MySpace), which doesn’t apply so much to a game developer posting on his employer’s fora. But, the fear of a stalker does. I admire and understand Mark Jacob’s stance, but if I were a potential employee, I’d be happier with Scott Hartsman’s. I’ve seen some of the posts players make that don’t get deleted, and I wouldn’t want some of them knowing how to track me down if I were a dev; I hate to think what might be in those posts that do get deleted.
about 3 years ago
So MBJ = Mark “biotch” Jacobs? (just kidding!) No wonder he takes such a dim view of nicknames. Get a new nick man!
On the pre-ren server thingy, I’d like to suggest MBJ start a new thread on certain fora to gauge community intrest, could make for some interesing reading at the very least…
about 3 years ago
Just to bring the discussion back into context, Scott (Hartsman)
Everyone on the EQ team just *chose* to use their real names for EQ Platinum, Scott? – http://www.allgame.com/cg/agg.dll?p=agg&sql=1:46019~T3
Ditto EQ II Desert of Flames? – http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/everquest-ii-desert-of-flames/credits
I could probably continue googling . . .
That is what we are discussing here – the official game credits in the manual.
about 3 years ago
Hahaha – Yes, I did catch that in the original post.
I was addressing the direction that the thread took, which contained a number of references to the relative value of aliases in general, in which there were a number of mentions of forum posts. No offense to the newsworthiness of the original post, but the followup discussion was the interesting part here.
It is an interesting distinction, though. Credits have built in ambiguity. A developer who wants to remain anonymous on the forums might well not care if their name is one of a giant group in which individual tasks aren’t easily differentiated. You can’t say which designer of a list of 30 nerfed your class.
That said, if someone opted out, absolutely, I’d allow it. Granted, that has yet to happen – With credits, some who have been reluctant to share real names on forums have only gone as far as wanting their kids’ names excluded from Special Thanks sections, while leaving their own names grouped in with others.
And of course people get a chance to opt out! I can only speak for my neck of the woods, but we generally pass the final draft to the full team before it goes to print, to make sure that (among other things) everything’s right. That’s when objections to credits content have generally been raised in the past, and we’ve made changes as needed.
- Scott
about 3 years ago
We’re on the same page, Scott (Hartsman).
The discussion about aliases on messageboards is a different animal. Carry on, folks.
about 3 years ago
Just found this. Flutter here. Wish I knew this was here.
Get in touch with me you jolly pirate.
There’s more than just some names on a credit screen at stake here.
Walter Yarbrough feel free to PM me via Stratics for my email if you can’t find it too.
If it was just about a name in quotes I would have posted quite differently.
They’re slitting the throat of this game in a very slow and meticulous way.