I certainly enjoyed reading the glimpse into the decision making process with the specific examples like the eq1 bazaar. As a player I stumble across pieces of games frequently where I question why that design tradeoff was made. I think many of these falls into this conflict of virtual world vs. fun game. For example, why do those shopkeepers spawn with limited amounts of gold such that only a few are able to sell their items? Why was time spent on making mobs attack each other to simulate an ecosystem when systems weren’t put in place to address scarcity or when the combat AI in general is not as advanced? Why were meeting stones a fix attempt at a LFG problem?

“Honestly, ANY virtual world can have ANY games embedded: big ones, small ones, RPGs, FPS, whatever, all in the SAME WORLD. An MMORPG is just a virtual world with one really big game in it.”

One could say the exact same thing about a single-player game. MMOGs aren’t special in that regard.

on June 15, 2007 at 4:59 pm D-0ne wrote:

If no one reads your text is it a world?

Perhaps a very lonely one!

on June 15, 2007 at 6:51 pm Raph wrote:

There’s no “north” on this page.

What I mean, of course, is a simulation of physical space. It can be a crude simulation (perhaps a nodal simulation, like old text muds; perhaps 2d; perhaps not). But the metaphor has to be derived from the notion of physical position. Note that this is not a technical requirement — it’s a presentation thing more than anything.

So we are saying the “world” part of virtual world implies the simulation of three-dimensional space? Even if only represented as text or simulated in 2d of course. That the lack of an environmental description of a 3d space are what differentiate a blog page comment thread, or message board thread, or chat room between a place to discuss certain topics or socialize and a “virtual world”?

Where do the old aol role-play chat rooms fall into the terminology. They were often given names and descriptions that implied physical three-dimensional locations and people assumed roles and interacted “physically”, and conveyed body language, through the use of emotes much like they do in contemporary mmorpgs and even in chat over IM’s.

*smiles at Calandryll*

*high fives Raph*

This is of course all just food for thought and banter, I’m not agreing or disagreeing with anyone’s individual viewpoint. My personal opinion on topics like this is best described by my favorite translation of a particular Marcus Aurelius quote from The Meditations; “Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”

If I can leave a lasting, persistent impact on the virtual space, then its a virtual world. Online or offline, it doesn’t matter.

If someone else can make an impact on the virtual space and I cannot, then it is not a virtual world.

The answer is completely in the perspective of the individual player. Not the Devs, not the GMs, and not the Uber Guilds.

-Nick

Amusingly, the few areas in SWG that tried to bring that kind of gameplay to the table were called “theme parks”. Ride the Sarlacc!

To be fair, the “theme parks” consisted of established settings in the Star Wars film universe. There were also non-interactive Points Of Interest, such as the droids’ escape pod on Tatooine, but the theme parks were basically just another progressive quest area. Who wouldn’t enjoy the opportunity to visit Jabba’s palace and kill 10 womp rats in order to gain an audience with Bib Fortuna, who would then ask you kill 10 snarling womp rats in order to gain an audience with Jabba the Hutt, who’d then confide in you that the womp rat problem really is getting out of hand and would you mind taking care of it? There’ll be a piece of composite armor in it for you, even if you can’t wear the stuff.

Ok. That’s still a Game to me. Even though this was a ‘destination’ for fans of the series and added to the flavor of the world, Jabba’s palace (and Vader’s hideout on Naboo and Leia’s cave on wherever it was, I don’t know, I only played Empire) was still another quest area. The rest were just non-interactive POIs existing only to be discovered. You got no reward for finding them, no badge, no exploration exp, but you got to jump up and down in guildchat going “I SAW THE CHARRED, BURNT CORPSES OF UNCLE OWEN AND AUNT BERU! WOO HOO!”

So those were the tourist attractions, really. And I was mighty surprised to find out that you couldn’t go and jump into the Sarlaac pit. So much for interaction. So I ran in a reasonably straight line from Mos Eisley to the Sarlaac pit’s coords, moved back 500m as that was the minimum distance you could place a player building from a POI, and built a souvenir stand. I sold fireworks (natch), cheap drinks, stuffed Banthas I had to go to Anchorhead (and endure Rebel kiddies) to buy, and t-shirts which read “Tatooine Is For Lovers” and “I Was Digested Slowly Over A Period Of A Thousand Years, Learning A New Definition of Pain and Suffering, and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt.” Didn’t make a ton of money off it, but I could tell folks were visiting and that’s what counted to me.

But was I still just playing along with the game at that point, or was I helping create a virtual world?