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Try Being An Internet Relations Manager, You Nutless Assmuncher
Today the announcement went up that Sanya Weathers, former Internet Relations Manager for EA Mythic on DAOC and Warhammer, was moving on to pursue new opportunities, onward and upward, exelsior, etc.
If you played EQ, one of the first impressions that you probably got from Sanya Weathers is that she did primal screams really, really well.
If you played DAOC, you probably spent a lot of time doing a slow burn about how Mythic hated your class/realm/life and it was probably Sanya’s fault because everyone could clearly see where the stars aligned so that your class abilities were clearly underperforming as any basic statistical analysis could show even the worst moron who never plays their own game and when they do it’s on the side that is being favored unless you play on that side in which case they hate you and should be reported to the Better Business Bureau or the World Court. (exhale)
My perspective is a bit different. I was privileged enough to see her career from the inside. I was able to watch as she took a much-maligned job and turn it into a profession, through the simple and painfully obvious act of …being honest and professional.
That latter probably threw quite a few folks who only knew Sanya from her profanity-flecked message board rantings pre-DAOC. (And yes, she can make a sailor blush if given enough reason, thanks to quite a …creative vocabulary.) In fact, one of the hits she took, often, in her new job was that she was uniquely unqualified for her position, due to her constant sniping from the sidelines.
She took that, filed it in a box alongside the ever-growing collection of hate mails and photoshop manipulations, and kept doing her job. Which, since it wasn’t really clearly defined, she proceeded to reinvent.
Her take on official message boards, for example, is that they’re inherently inefficient. Many-to-one-to-many. You can never get complete feedback from a message board thread, because it’s a self-selecting sample of people who have gotten quite good at jockeying for position on a message board. So instead, she pulled regular reports both from analyzing message board trends, as well as from any other metrics she could get her hands on (one of my jobs at the time involved trying to come up with more).
She then made sure that decision makers for the game had that information available (whatever they did with it, beyond that point, was up to them), and then carried back to the player base as much information as she could about what was being done with that information. Meanwhile, the self-selecting sample of people who had gotten quite good at jockeying for position on a message board started to feel a bit ignored, because there wasn’t always an immediate response to every Dramatic Crisis d’Jour.
Much of what she did was “gimmicky”, such as the weekly “Grab Bags” that collected often unrelated answers to random game-related questions, along with an opportunity to respond to whatever Dramatic Crisis d’Jour presented itself. Yet in many ways, the gimmicks worked. Players knew to expect the Grab Bag on a weekly basis, would often handicap it, sometimes complain about it… and always read it.
Her navigating the twin pillars of Scylla and Charibdis, the developers in danger of retreating into bunkers and the players lobbing grenades at said bunkers, was not always perfect, but it was still far, far better than any had seen before. As the years passed, many players become frequently more and more abusive, often simply because, well, they could. And often, developers gave her incorrect answers to questions (including myself, a few times) for which she would take the blame. That, too, unfortunately, was part of her job.
Finally, almost every competitor paid her the ultimate compliment: here a grab bag, there some player stats, and central community news sites, well, everywhere. And that is truly her greatest legacy; that the style of communication that she fostered became adopted everywhere, and made routine. For those of us who remember MMOs prior to 2001, that was an accomplishment all its own.
I suspect we’ll be hearing from her again.
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about 3 years ago
Think it’s kinda a sad day for Mythic, and for a lot of us that have worked for Mythic in some capacity or another.
I wish her the best of luck, and truly hope that her future is as bright as it can be.
about 3 years ago
We
about 3 years ago
Bah, damned HTML stripping killed my message!
We still (heart) Sanya!!
about 3 years ago
Good luck, Sanya. Quite a surprise.
about 3 years ago
Sorry to see you go, Sanya, but best of luck in your future endeavors.
about 3 years ago
I remember when I lost it over (lack of) armsmen changes and sorta took it out on her.
It’s been a few years, but hey, now she can tell me how she REALLY felt!
about 3 years ago
Damn, and I was hoping to be in a position to offer her a job when she finally decided to make her escape.
Good luck, and godspeed, Sanya.
–Dave
about 3 years ago
Good luck, Sanya. I know you’ll turn up again, kicking ass and taking names.
about 3 years ago
I think Sanya set the standard for community interaction in the industry and I think everyone knows it. EVE has the dev blogs, which are interesting and different from what Sanya did, but everyone other game’s CS is just playing second best to Sanya.
about 3 years ago
Good person, very naive approach to community relations.
20 years of managing that type of intellect in the union construction industry has taught me its best just to be very clear about what you intend to do and leave little open to discussion.
“Mythic hated your class/realm/life” types are never going to be satisfied until its Red team vs Blue team vs Green team. /yawn.
about 3 years ago
“20 years of managing that type of intellect in the union construction industry”
There’s your problem. That industry isn’t like the MMO industry. No one building a bridge or office complex is there to entertain, so it’s far less important (and a lot more understandable) to have one guy make decisions.
Just imagine the bullshit flying around if building stuff was just an entertainment medium plus all your workers were basically anonymous to anyone but the head of the company.
…wait, I think I just described second life.
about 3 years ago
Much luck to Tweety.
about 3 years ago
I always admired how Sanya ran her shop. The computer gaming world has its flashy iconic people like Koster and Carmack, but in many ways she’s in the same league. A lot lower keyed but just as influential in her own way.
She has her naive streak (not so much anymore) but then so does Koster. In fact all people who are somewhat visionary or otherwise exceptional in a creative field tend to have it to some degree or another. I can forgive that in the light that it allows them to make the advances and push the world along.
I had my beefs with Mythic and its decisions over the years. Don’t play Camelot anymore because of them really. However their community service side was good enough that even when the direction of the game made me leave… I’ll still buy their next game soon as it comes out and give it a try. Unlike some others that I’ve washed my hands of for a few years (I figure with the industry turnover of ‘leaders’ checking back every few years on a new product can be worthwhile.)
I do hope that at some point we’ll see her around again as a community manager.
The terms in use though make me somewhat concerned. In my side of the computer field if you have a “mutually agreed parting of the ways” it tends to mean that your clearances are being revoked and you can quit or be fired. By quitting you get a good reference, a pat on the head and a smile. If you choose option B you’ll be escorted by base police off and can expect to have a conversation with law enforcement over something. I’m hoping its just a different usage of terms and not quite as confrontational as it comes across to me.
about 3 years ago
Cya around Sanya, you do of course always have our emails
about 3 years ago
best of luck to joo!
you were my favorite community person evar
about 3 years ago
O captain, my captain…
I swear if I have to quote that poem one more time I’m done with this freakin’ industry.
- Sanya’s Minion
about 3 years ago
Now, more than ever, I wish I’d played DaoC so that I could have stolen techniques from her. Her response to the interview question about the evolution of community management is just brilliant.
about 3 years ago
Just want to jump on the
about 3 years ago
Theurgists sucked because of Sanya.
True story.
about 3 years ago
Good luck with everything Sanya!
about 3 years ago
Can’t say I’m sad to see her go.
If she set the standard, it really goes to show the mess the mmog industry really is.
about 3 years ago
Quite a surprise.
Good luck out there Sanya.
- Jay
about 3 years ago
Through my times of playing daoc I have many times gotten rather enraged at certain things. However Sanya was definitely a bright point in my memories of the game. I remember hearing Mythic had hired her all those years ago and I could not believe it. I mean, I had read some of her stuff. Why would a company hire a complete firebrand like that? I kind of winced and thought to myself, “I wonder how long that situation will last before a fiery explosion.” I was wrong though, and she impressed me from day one.
I really wonder about the mutually agreed parting of ways bit. Good luck to all involved however.
about 3 years ago
I’m sad to see her go.
I loved the honest, down-to-earth, non-marketing information that she shared — both on the Herald and the message boards. Refreshing, informative, and it was obvious there was a real person behind there who cared passionately about her job and the people she worked with. A rarity in this world of polished, targeted content and marketing-spin in which we live.
Good luck in your future endeavors, Sanya!
about 3 years ago
My 2 fvorite ranters were Tweety and Lum. I can see EA doing to DAoC Mythic what they did to UO. This and the catering to the 8 year olds has already started it on a faster downhill slide.
Sanya we /many will really miss you. Its odd who took your place ( can never happen)
about 3 years ago
Truly and end to an era. Best of luck to you in the future Sayna. You kept me playing DAOC much longer than I should have thanks to the community you fostered.
godspeed
about 3 years ago
Sanya is still held up as an example of how to do it, when my friends and I bitch^H^H^H^H^Htalk about that kind of thing.
At the time, she was the only positive example! Her writing style was entertaining, she presented herself as caring…and so on. (I especially loved the nicknames she referred to people within the company by.)
I felt I could trust her. That was almost never the case before. I stopped playing Camelot a while ago, but the fond memories linger…
about 3 years ago
Will be missed. I’d guess something went bad, given that I would’ve expected Sanya to give a goodbye Herald post herself.
Anyway, yes, I was always amazed at the sort of banter she got away with on the Grab Bags (which is a very good thing). That will definitely be missed. Good luck in the future, if you’re reading this.
about 3 years ago
With a writeup like that, I’m sure she can go anywhere…
about 3 years ago
She has a husband, dogs, and a house. Shes not dead.
about 3 years ago
…I wasnt trying to be callus there. I just think, she’s going to keep going on. Shes made the leap before. Player to guide to voice.
Maby Shes going to be a mother that plays games, but it sounds like she wants another job. If she doesnt already have one.
Either way shes around.
about 3 years ago
Everyone knows that DAOC is on life support and the second Warhammer goes live, the cord is going to get yanked. That is a shame, since “The one who’s name will not be spoken” left, there has been a dramatic change in the way they have dealt with the players and the game. They actually listen now. Changes happen for the better. Hopfully with Sanya leaving that won’t stop, but in the end I can’t see much good coming from this change.
about 3 years ago
Good luck to you Sanya. It was always fun when you’d pop in IRC and listen to us TLs whine
Best wishes wherever you go.
-T
about 3 years ago
Tweety was and is just fucking awesome. Just like Lum here, I’ll find her blog, or whatever she ends up doing and know, it’s done by good people. I’m sure, for whatever reason, she is getting what she needs. And by proxy we all will as well.
about 3 years ago
Sorry to see you go.
Bon Chance!
about 3 years ago
So when can we expect the “Sanya tells all” book?
Good luck with whatever you decide to do Sanya, I’m sure you’ll have offers galore.
about 3 years ago
Amazing, you think that WoW’s armory is paying homage to your usually broken and inaccurate Herald? What a joke! Herald has been known to be broken for WEEKS at a time and very frequently.
The WoW armory is an EVOLUTION, as in the next step for MMOs to allow players to show off their phat lewts and stats. It’s not just about realm points or kills anymore.
about 3 years ago
#34
Daoc in all likelyhood will not survive much longer after Warhammer. It IS on lifesupport. Mythic has been branded in the MMO community as an arrogant and self serving company (buffbots). Look how long it took to detect radar in the game, close to 4 years, it’s still not fixed because they take the easy way out to detect it. Things like that, aside from the obvious blunders like TOA, expansion classes getting nerfed, ignoring old classic classes, ignoring game breaking bugs such as LOS exploits have left a terrible taste in the mouths of players. Everything Mythic has done is REACTIVE, not proactive, which is really what is killing them right now. That’s what sitting on your laurels will do.
about 3 years ago
And my interest in Warhammer takes another serious plunge.
Sanya, I hope you’re reading this, because the industry could learn a lot from how you did your job. I couldn’t be more sincere.
Daoc had a lot of problems, but one thing it got right more than any MMO before or after it, was the Herald, and the way you handled customer service, and how you went about passing on information about the game with obvious honesty and forthrightness.
Good luck in whatever you do next.
about 3 years ago
Very well written. I like your take on it. Nice to see the other side.
about 3 years ago
Reading her departure is a damn shame. I’m glad I got to see her one last time at the NYC Gathering a couple months ago. She’ll be greatly missed, and I hope we hear she’s still in the business and vocal as ever again in the near future.
Tony
about 3 years ago
Six years in that job was a hell of a run. Here’s hoping her next job doesn’t force her to roll for sanity every week.
about 3 years ago
I think the biggest downside to her job was she almost never heard from the people who appreciated it because satisfied customers just play on. She did satisfy a lot of people though, the silent majority of players who never visit the forums. They benefit from the information she pushed out to the news-sites and would make it to those that didn’t visit by word of mouth.
I do hope we see her again and moreover I hope we see more of her kind in various games under development.
If we’re lucky, she’s off to do help with an intervention for Brad McQuaid?
about 3 years ago
A unique, expressive and engaging woman whom I’m sure will go on to other exciting opportunities.
All the best Sanya.
about 3 years ago
Yay, now Sanya is free to have my babies!
Oh, what? She’s married?!
*crushed*
Seriously Sanya, you are the greatest. Good luck with your job hunt and I hope you find something that makes you clam happy.
about 3 years ago
Another victim of the EA Borg. Too bad, customer service in DAOC was pretty good back in the day. Have they moved phone support to Bangalore yet?
Sanya didn’t invent being honest and responsive with your customers (sorry Scott), but it might have seemed that way because nobody in MMO’s had tried it before. Best of luck.
about 3 years ago
She set the bar, and she set it high.
Best wishes to her in all future ventures.
about 3 years ago
I thought she did a pretty good job at community relations, and the camelot herald is a fine gaming resource site worthy of emulation.
Hopefully she’ll stay in the gaming scene somewhere.
about 3 years ago
about 3 years ago
Testing… Apparently my first message didn’t go through.
Nothing but love for Sanya and I look forward to seeing what she is up to next. Always a friend and good person to know. You know where to find me and I have people that can hunt you down if you disappear on me! ;p
about 3 years ago
Sanya’s awesome. I would have thought she would have quit a long time ago because of the large % of whiners and just plain unpleasant people playing DAoC. STFU n00b! c4n u g1v3 m3 g0ld???!!?!?!?! y0u h4v3 t0 g1v3 m3 500g0ld n0w!!! Its amazing how quickly your /ignore list can fill up.
Sigh. Anyway, I am glad she seems happy and I hope she does something exiting next.
The “mutual decision” thing is crap though. That is HR speak for someone at EA wanted her to leave and the person writing the Press Release did not want to be a dick about it. I am interested in the actual story. Does anyone know what actually happened?
about 3 years ago
I still think “no official message boards” is a terrible decision. “Not JUST official message boards as a feedback path” is fine, but I am a little confused by all of the praise going around for Mythic’s communication methods; even as a Pendragon insider I felt like the feedback we got from Mythic when I was a player was very limited and poor (except for from the itemization people, they actually participated.) The average player who didn’t even have that kind of access felt even more shut out (based on what I’ve heard from the people I played with, anyway), grab bag or not.
Granted I left a little while before they got rid of Mackey, and maybe it all got better after that.
about 3 years ago
Mythic’s loss – Sanya was a real asset to the company. I kept playing DAOC longer than I would have had she not done what she did so well.
She set the bar high for community relations.
I’d wish her luck but I doubt she needs it. I hope she’s happy in her next incarnation.
about 3 years ago
Could this herald the return of Tweety’s Rants?
about 3 years ago
Oddly enough, another former DAOC internet relations guy, Markey, sits in the cube next to me here at WotC.
about 3 years ago
I was never a DAoC player, but Sanya’s work with the game is pretty legendary. Good luck with whatever the future has in store for you, Sanya!
about 3 years ago
> Oddly enough, another former DAOC
> internet relations guy, Markey,
> sits in the cube next to me here at
> WotC.
You got both his handle and his job wrong. He was a designer on DAOC, specializing in class balance and provoking large quantities of love from message boards.
about 3 years ago
Sanya was one of the shining lights of Mythic Entertainment and DAOC. Cheers to her and greatest hopes that the future will bring her good things.
Thanks for everything Tweety!
about 3 years ago
Thanks for the link to the exit interview, that was fun to read.
“And, I, uh, had this website…”
Let’s hope it gets revived for a post or two before she gets sucked back into the corporate world.
about 3 years ago
“I still think “no official message boards” is a terrible decision. “Not JUST official message boards as a feedback path” is fine, but I am a little confused by all of the praise going around for Mythic’s communication methods; even as a Pendragon insider I felt like the feedback we got from Mythic when I was a player was very limited and poor (except for from the itemization people, they actually participated.) The average player who didn’t even have that kind of access felt even more shut out (based on what I’ve heard from the people I played with, anyway), grab bag or not.
Granted I left a little while before they got rid of Mackey, and maybe it all got better after that.”
QFT
about 3 years ago
>You got both his handle and his job >wrong. He was a designer on DAOC, >specializing in class balance and >provoking large quantities of love from >message boards.
I did get the part about him sitting a cube away correct though. He, unfortunately, isn’t here this week so I had no opportunity to clarify my facts. :/
about 3 years ago
Mackey was given the boot? And he works at WotC?
I heard a new m:tg set came out, so I’ll keep an eye out for the sorcery card that taps all opponent’s creatures and the 1/1 green creature that sends all tapped creatures to the graveyard.
about 3 years ago
I was just sort of hoping that Tweety was gonna go work on the WAR stuff.
about 3 years ago
Sanya rocked, plain and simple. I hate to see her go before WAR’s release. It seems EA is dismantling one of the greatest MMO company’s slowly but surely.
about 3 years ago
It’s a shame. Was starting to really look forward to Warhammer since I am rather burned out on WoW. Not that Warhammer won’t still be a good game, it was just going to be nice playing a game Sanya was involved with for a change.
about 3 years ago
Good luck Sanya!
about 3 years ago
Tweety on boss mobs: “If the only way they had to make mobs tough was to cheat, i.e. make them hit ridiculously hard, AE lifetaps, ultra-high resistance, etc., then it would be a boring game, and we wouldn’t be here arguing about it 2 years after release.”
Oops. Doesn’t that describe *every* MMOG’s ‘named’ mobs? Oh well, somewhere we got stuck on ‘aggro.’ Mobs became infinitely stupid and were only capable of tallying up that they hated Cleric01 3,540 much and Fighter09 3,792 much, so they must go hit Fighter09 even though he’s never going to die as long as Cleric01 is standing behind him.
In a reasonable MMOG, the only reason an intelligent mob should stop before killing Cleric01 is because it is dangerous to continued life to turn one’s back on people who’ve spent their whole lives training to carve things up with 3 to 6 foot pieces of sharpened steel.
Hmm, I’ve gotten on a bit of a rant myself. Best of luck Sanya and I’m sure your decision was the right one.
about 3 years ago
Sanya was one of the few MMO devs at my first AGC who gave me a case of the groupies
Some of us over at WWIIOL might quibble about a qualification of “first” on some of your grab bag, hehe
But you won’t get any argument from me for accrediting them as Sanya’s legacy. To her further credit – I’d be highly surprized if Sanya had been aware of the WB/WWII versions of some of those things.
about 3 years ago
Sanya was one of the few MMO devs at my first AGC who gave me a case of the groupies
Some of us over at WWIIOL might quibble about a qualification of “first” on some of your grab bag, hehe
But you won’t get any argument from me for accrediting them as Sanya’s legacy. To her further credit – I’d be highly surprized if Sanya had been aware of the WB/WWII versions of some of those things.
All I can say is that Sanya being “available” can only mean some MMO is going to get very, very lucky
about 3 years ago
“I’d be highly surprized if Sanya had been aware of the WB/WWII versions of some of those things.”
As you noted on your side, you’d be surprised how often people looked at WB as inspiration. I wouldn’t venture to guess that Sonya did or didn’t – but when I saw DAoC’s thing, I personally said “oh, ok, they have score pages.”
Of course WB has always relied on “whatever lunatic is so inspired by the game that he wants to give hundreds of his spare hours to create ” ranging from the score pages to, well, Roger Wilco.
Heck, really DAoC’s RvR is nothing more than the old Air Warrior A/B/C endless war… (/grins)
about 3 years ago
Don’t worry. Old CMs never die. They just stop crushing and start baking bread.
about 3 years ago
Doh! I claim pitiful and inexcusable ignorance w/r/t WB/WWIIO. To play a warsim of any flavor requires more gaming skill than I have. The Z-AXIS requires more skill than I have. Really, in ’01, if it was outside the fantasy MMO ghetto, I never saw it.
I’ll say also that we didn’t think we were revolutionary – we thought we were the purveyors of obvious truth. (We = Scott and I, we did the Herald together and he deserves much more credit than he is taking for himself.) If I had known, I would have tipped my hat years ago.
Everything on this thread has been too nice, and I sincerely thank you all. Swearing comes easier to me than what this thread is inspiring.
I’m using sanyaMTW (at) gmail (dot) com for now, though the volume is temporarily making response time… as bad as it was when I was Mythic’s head CM
about 3 years ago
Wow, good luck Sanya. I can’t believe she put up with us all those years at E3 when I was (somewhat) doing stuff with Todd Pratt. I know super Canadian Mike Shears is also probably sheading a tear too.
Thanks, Sanya!
about 3 years ago
Go Sanya.
I always liked what she did and she kept me in DAoC a goodly while longer.
about 3 years ago
YANDC (Yet Another Nail in DAoC’s Coffin) has been hammered in. Hopefully she found a better job else where and left before it all inploded.
about 3 years ago
BRING BACK TWEETY RANTS, BEEEOTCH11!1!
about 3 years ago
I’ll miss her also. She gave strength and heart to the DAOC peoples imo. I wanna know what game she goes to so I can buy it. EA bites imho.
about 3 years ago
Wow, this news blew my mind when I heard it. I never met Sanya, or even talked with her, but I listened to her voice and read her input for nearly half a dozen years. Her voice was how I saw Camelot.
I always loved Sanya as our CM because she had so much fire and life, you just knew she would go up to bat for you and put it all on the line when it mattered, and maybe she finally lost that battle.
But I tell you what, whomever hires her gets my business. I believe in a CM who can tell the truth and will tell the truth, and will fight for the players. I’m happy to have given Mythic six years of my business, when I heard they hired Sanya to talk for them, I knew they were my kind of company.
I suppose that with the change of tides so comes the change of faces. Now that they are EA, and Sanya is gone, well, I don’t know what to think but I don’t have much faith in them now.
Gonna miss Sanya terribly, terribly.
about 3 years ago
Thank you Sanya for all you have done for the gaming industry, you will be missed.
about 2 years ago
an ok person leaves a lame game