Joe Blancato, formerly of Waterthread and now all respectable and stuff for The Escapist, posts a detailed writeup connecting the dots with the Eve Online/Band of Brothers hoofrah…
…including the confession of the developer responsible.
Regrettably, my actions inevitably led to a shadow of suspicion being cast on a number of my co-workers, as well as Reikoku and Band of Brothers. I wish to make it clear that I acted alone and my co-workers and corp/alliance mates have been cleared of any alleged wrongdoing.
As much as this is a confession it is also a request for your forgiveness for events of which I’m truly sorry.
*OUCH*
More comments from the president of CCP, Hilmar Pettursson here.
The developers of this company will always play the games that they build here. Without being fully immersed in the player experience, perspective, and community, it is impossible to build, maintain, and expand online worlds with any degree of competency. And while that does expose us to some degree of risk, the rewards are incalculably higher. EVE has grown stronger every year since its inception; these bumps in the road are an inevitable part of the journey we must endure as a growing company; and we would not be here today if we opted to isolate ourselves from the player experience of EVE Online.
It is thus that we look forward to putting this matter firmly behind us, and move forward with our continued mission to improve and expand a world that we hold close to our hearts.
A brief perusal of the Eve boards gives us a probably unrepresentative sampling of the mood:
I ask CCP this now – is t20 still employed? If yes, why?
I honestly dont think its good enoug T20.
You knew you were breaking the rules.As pointed out. CCP is hitting the bottom.
While t20 did something he shouldn’t have done, I really hope he doesn’t get fired. He’s been with the community for a long time.
It’s not like the BPO’s made some huge difference in terms of isk or advantage or anything. It’s wrong of course, but nothing staggering.
Is t20 going to be terminated and/or recieving any kind of punishment? Are all the players that are *not* devs that have been banned etc. going to recieve reparations since they have been proved correct?
It’s fine for him to sit there and beg forgiveness, but I’ll bet he’d be a lot sorrier if he had to go on the dole.
I’ve lost faith in the game now. I think you are lying through your teeth ccp, it’s obvious from the logs that CCP developers have shared information with RKK directors and yet you refute it.
No matter which way this all turns out, this has been a nightmare for CCP and Eve, and hopefully they will work through this and keep going. Eve’s innovations are too important to the genre and the industry as a whole to be entangled in this crap.
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The more layers of communication between you and the experience and information that you need, the slower you are to react and the more likely you are to suffer a communication breakdown. Typically in an MMO (see any MMO forum) the most vocal players are not totally representative of the whole on a large number of issues, and players tend to see thing from just the point of view of how something affects them, not how it affects everyone else.
You don’t NEED programmers and many other occupations to play the game, but you can’t survive without producers and game designers who know it intimately.
“And I think the majority of those hardcore players are just glad the devs actually care enough to cheat.
”
That’s the most moronic thing I’ve read this year.
And, if you’re right, its even worse.
Heh, I didn’t realize Joe who wrote that article was our Joe. Hey folks
The real problem with this is that there have been literally hundreds of separate allegations of developers cheating in favor of BoB over the years. The fact that one of them — the only one that was proveable, really — has actually been proved, gives credence to [i]all[/i] the other accusations.
I think the telling thing is going to be the next few months. Almost every single other alliance in game has now banded together to stomp on the cheating alliance (BoB). Depending on how that war goes, the Eve community may fix itself. (Alternatively, the devs may continue to cheat even more in BoB’s favor. We’ll see.)
There have been litteraly hundreds of accusations thrown many ways. Some of them true – nobody’s cared before, though (And most of them not related to BoB at all).
And is some now-clear evidence against the goons as well. Banning ALL those in an LV corp able to adjust POS settings literally minutes before a goon attack, and JUST those people?
And let’s not forget the client-side hack. There is simply no higher ground for the goons to claim in this.
Some of the alliances are against BoB. Some are double agents. Some are on BoB’s side because you attacked them anyway. If you’d held off for 48 hours and made the other alliances a real deal, you’d of been in a far better position. As it is, you have no real force advantage and BoB has better organisation.
But, as usual, the goons are saying they’ve won at the start. You’re not going to win. You simply don’t understand how bitter a lot of Eve players you haven’t figured in are about the client hack and other matters.
Again – I’m not pro-BoB, I’m anti-Goon. If goonfleet withdrew from the coalition against BoB, I and others would join in shooting BoB in a heartbeat.
I’m not paying the Goons to run an honest game. And, it turns out, I haven’t been paying CCP to, either.
Andrew, your opinion on the war simply doesn’t matter, and neither does your opinion on Goonfleet, and nobody wants to hear it any more. Every political entity of any size at all has already picked a side in this war (the only exception I’m currently aware of is Privateers, and they don’t count for obvious reasons). Everyone except BoB and BoB vassals has picked the side that’s fighting BoB.
You can keep reposting whatever unsubstantiated, biased, or outright false anti-goonfleet rumours you dredge up from the various corners of the internet. Nobody cares any more. This is about BoB, and proven developer-level corruption that benefitted BoB. Your futile crusade to turn this into a Goonfleet issue is merely pathetic.
Andrew Crystall
Well, I’m of mixed feelings.
I expect the value of their experience depends on what their role is and how it interacts with the normal player role.
Interacting with the players in-game as they are playing is sure to be valuable.
Certainly more valuable than not playing at all.
Pretending to playing as a normal player is valuable (+5!). But if then getting caught cheating erases all that, maybe more…
Where I’m really torn here is with devs playing superman roles: the roleplayers might be alright with it, but many could view that as just unfair, too.
Andrew Crystall
Does that have to be a face-to-face sit-down, you think? Maybe the players could deliver the scoop just as well, if given access to devs.
Access itself is a significant, game-impacting power. At best devs may pretend that they don’t have access (somehow – to themselves) but they always do have at least that.
Thing is there are not many devs who need unrestricted god-powers anyway.
A more conservative approach than adding gods to the game might be to yank all the devs’ god-powers. Then only enable it as it is needed, only as much as is needed, only for as long as is needed, while also monitoring and logging how it is used.
Andrew Crystall
Well, I’m of mixed feelings.
I expect the value of their experience depends on what their role is and how it interacts with the normal player role.
Interacting with the players in-game as they are playing is sure to be valuable.
Certainly more valuable than not playing at all.
Pretending to playing as a normal player is valuable (+5!). But if then getting caught cheating erases all that, maybe more…
Where I’m really torn here is with devs playing superman roles: the roleplayers might be alright with it, but many could view that as just unfair, too.
Andrew Crystall
Does that have to be a face-to-face sit-down, you think? Maybe the players could deliver the scoop just as well, if given access to devs.
Access itself is a significant, game-impacting power. At best devs may pretend that they don’t have access (somehow – to themselves) but they always do have at least that.
Thing is there are not many devs who need unrestricted god-powers anyway.
A more conservative approach than adding gods to the game might be to yank all the devs’ god-powers. Then only enable it as it is needed, only as much as is needed, only for as long as is needed, while also monitoring and logging how it is used.
Andrew, this has to be the second or third site I’ve seen you commenting at with your pitchfork up and missing the point.
Evangolis said exactly what I said to you back in the comments of The Escapist magazine: players pay the company to play the game. Not Kugutsumen, not alliances in-game.
THAT’S the bigger issue at hand.
You’re muddying that debate by bringing up in-game stuff.
Calenth, then you’re free to stop pumping out Hackfleet propaganda. So sorry you have a problem with it being debunked.
“Every political entity of any size at all has already picked a side in this war ”
I could name a good dozen who did not want to get involved quite easily. Most of them are now fighting “with BoB” not because they wanted to, but because they’ve been see as “in the BoB camp”.
You keep on posting about how Goonfleet’s cause is good and light, when in fact every single last client-hacking goon should of been banned from the game. If any action is taken by the devs on BoB, then all of goonfleet must be banned as well to make it clear that the devs are being even handed.
I know you don’t like that. Tough.
Jeff Freeman,
*Nods*
“Does that have to be a face-to-face sit-down, you think? Maybe the players could deliver the scoop just as well, if given access to devs.”
I’d say it was worth it. Forums tend to be a morass, and picking the good viewpoints out and discussing them (since it’s very easy to misunderstand finer points in a one-way situation).
Perhaps that calls for a top-secret player-developer forum, but that has issues with bias and so on as well.
“yank all the devs’ god-powers”
Well, why would they have any of them on the main server they didn’t explicitly need in the first place? I mean, on the test server put up a disclamer..and if the dev needs to test a city-busting missile, “so sorry”.
Carrie Byron, and your support for a wanted hacker is and remains sickening. He is not the issue, stop giving him free publicity for his “services”.
SirBruce is that you?
Ooookayyyy…
Andrew, I’m glad you’re so into this game, but honestly, you’re weird and kind of creepy.
Anyone else who wants to read Andrew’s bizarre pushes to switch the issue from developers cheating to whatever other subject he wants to like Kugutsumen or Goonfleet or whatever, take a look at his posts at the Escapist:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/68591-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep
Between CCP’s indiscretions and his postings, I don’t think this is the sort of game any casual player should ever play. Myself included.
No, Carie, I have these things called ethics. So sorry you don’t, but that’s no reason for me not to follow mine. My stance has been consistant throughout. And yes, I’ve debunked the goons constant whining they have the moral high ground. They don’t.
Actually, carrie, it’s a lot of fun (seriously, just ignore andrew’s rantings. Every game out there has a nutcase or three). It’s probably closest in spirit to the old Ultima Online days of anything out there right now. It hits the same general mark that Shadowbane aimed at, but with a much more robust economic system. It’s also good for casual players because your skills train while you’re offline, so you don’t have to grind it heavily to “keep up.” That said, it definitely isn’t for everyone — it’s a pvp game with very very heavy loss penalties and extraordinarily complex game systems. It probably does appeal most strongly to relatively hardcore gamers.
As to the scandal, things are looking up. They’ve appointed a specific guy to do GM oversight, and he’s someone that the community overall still respects and trusts (former senior GM Arkanon). They are apparently setting up an IA team, etc. We’ll see how things develop, but at the moment it looks like there’s going to be general improvement.
How will you know? That is, by the way, both a sarcastic jibe and a serious question. Respond as you feel most comfortable.
Calenth,
So goonswarm, who metagame as a matter of policy and hack the client once again are trying to take the ethical high ground and “sell” Eve. Say, how much was Remedial making from referals and GTC’s?
Anyway,
Eve is a PvP game. If you don’t like competition in your games, you’re probably not going to get on with Eve. Eve also requires cooperation – unless you’re willing to join a corp, there’s a fairly fixed limit to what you can do in Eve.
The comparison with Shadowbane or UO isn’t really fair – you could be ganked within sight of the city walls in those games. Eve has a much bigger “safe”* zone, but the rewards go up when you’re willing to venture outside it.
(*The “guards” will kill your attacker and they lose a chunk of security status. You may still die..)
It’s not for everyone, and dosn’t pretend to be.
Evangolis, Arkanon has allways been one of the more…hmm…legalistic GM’s. Admitedly an outsider might have been a better idea, but if they wanted an insider he’s a good choice.
“Eve is a PvP game. If you don’t like competition in your games, you’re probably not going to get on with Eve.”
I put it to you that competition and PvP are rendered laughable when the Devs themselves cheat.
Why would I want to get it on at all with that track record ?
At the end of Lum’s original piece it says:
“No matter which way this all turns out, this has been a nightmare for CCP and Eve, and hopefully they will work through this and keep going. Eve’s innovations are too important to the genre and the industry as a whole to be entangled in this crap.”
Surely even if the game suffers massively as a result, the innovations that have happened up until this point aren’t going to disappear?
EVE’s been a success story in many ways and obviously I hope it continues to be, but there’s a real danger that this is being taken quite lightly by many, IMO.
Ewan, quite.
As I’ve said before though, this is just the first story which has been noticed. Others, like the player preventing from reporting harrassment under the threat of being banning himself by GM’s, have gone unnoticed.
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