Federal search warrants were served on owners of L2Extreme who were also questioned during the raid. L2Extreme was providing its users with unauthorized service and code for NCsoft’s online computer game, Lineage\’c2\’ae II. The warrants enabled officials to halt L2Extreme’s operations while collecting further evidence in the course of the investigation.
The FBI estimates L2Extreme has up to 50,000 active users on its service. NCsoft estimates that monetary losses and damages from the operation are costing NCsoft millions of dollars per year.
L2Extreme advertised on its website, www.l2extreme.com, that more than half million registered users had subscribed to play.
The L2Extreme site has been replaced with the standard FBI takedown message.
(Note that as an employee of NCsoft I cannot comment further, and know nothing beyond the press release anyway!)
#1 by Nicademus on November 20th, 2006
So were they actually charging a fee for playing? Or was this akin to UOX emulator shards?
Finally did RG lead the takedown fully decked out in Rainbox Six style gear?
#2 by Lietgardis on November 20th, 2006
That takedown page is pretty cool. It’s exactly what I would have expected in 1995.
#3 by Heartless_ on November 20th, 2006
Yes because we all know people that play on free servers would be willing to pay to play your game? Chances are those $50,000 were only playing because it was free. I have never read or heard a legitimate reason given that explains how free servers cost a company anything. If anything; it attracts players to the game itself and since almost no free servers are as well supported as official servers you might gain a customer because of it.
Anyways… stealing is bad and these guys have no defense for stealing. I just don’t like NCSoft trying to pawn it off as though they are losing money. Only money being lost is what they are pissing down the toilet to a trial lawyer.
#4 by Nicademus on November 20th, 2006
Heart, that was a novel defense when Scour used it in 1997. But I gotta say it’s aging somewhat. Who would want to play a game free when there are for pay servers that deliver the exact same product? I failed Econ 203 in college, but I gotta say the whole supply curve model disagrees with you.
I’d be interested for people with kewl red names to comment on why UOX was tolerated but this wasn’t. My guess is that UOX just reinforced how fucking hard it was to balance UO and run it day in day out without some group of fucktards horribly breaking it.
But given the iron clad “NFW don’t even dream about it” EULA’s you have to actively opt into these days I don’t see how this is much of a surprise. Especially with a cash cow like Lineage.
#5 by Andrew Crystall on November 20th, 2006
Sure.
But there is every difference between this and…say… BNetD. This is server for a subscription game, actively competing.
(BNetD was a clear reverse engineering and even OFFERED to work with Blizzard to impliment their copy protection, before someone whines about that).
Also under Eurolaw, I can’t see this as being a EULA issue but a copyright law one. And not-for (ANY) profit is a stronger defence here. But I’d guess they had adverts or took donations or the like.
#6 by Gawain The Blind on November 20th, 2006
I played lineage2 for a while. I couldn’t stand it. Parts of it were cool, the graphics were ok, the “shop” mode was awesome, but the game was based around a grind, without even WoW’s horribly thin veneer of “adventurez0rz”.
Would I ever pay to play it again? No. But would I play it for free? Maybe. Sometimes I want nothing more than to run out and slaughter some monsters for an hour or two after work. (luckily I have guildwars for that)
I’m not saying that running a free server is OK, and i’m not saying that all 50 thousand or whatever users playing the free server were like me: not finding the game worth paying for, but jumping on a free server every once in a while would be fun. But I bet some of them were, and I question whether or not NCsoft would have made any more money than they did if the server didn’t exist.
#7 by damijin on November 20th, 2006
The L2 community heard about this a few days ago, but like most, I wasn’t sure of it’s authenticity until this release.
Something that made L2X different from most servers was that it used a pirated version of the L2 architecture that has been leaked several times from unknown sources. This separates it from the “L2j” project which is a fully open source java emulation project that uses none of the original L2 code.
Also, rumor was that the operator (known as Schmee), was not paying taxes on the “donations” he was receiving to “keep the servers up.”
Basically most L2 private servers accept donations in exchange for weapons, armor, and sometimes levels. Micro-transactions, in essence, but they call them donations so as to appear to be not making money on their servers.
#8 by Andrew Crystall on November 20th, 2006
damijin, ah, makes much more sense – using pirate code vs reverse engineering (with tax evasion thrown in as a bonus…) DO seem to make law enforcement people froth…
#9 by Psychochild on November 20th, 2006
One thing that people probably don’t realize is that in order to get the FBI involved in something like this, you have to prove significant financial harm has been done. In an ideal world the FBI would chase down all the bad guys, but in the real world they only take cases that are of large import. It makes some sense, because they can’t investigate every single time someone gets a password wrong when trying to log into a private FTP site, for example. Therefore, I suspect the “OMG WE LOOSE MONEY!” bit in that press release is to restate to the FBI that NCSoft is indeed losing money and that this is time well spent.
#10 by Nicademus on November 20th, 2006
“Insert FBI Anti-Porn Taskforce snark here”
#11 by Abalieno on November 20th, 2006
This is one of the very few cases where I’m not at the side of the players.
That’s very true, also.
Asking to close those servers is legitimate. But I would ask money or throw in jail those who kept those servers up.
#12 by Abalieno on November 20th, 2006
Oops, I meant I *wouldn’t*
#13 by damijin on November 20th, 2006
Yeah, 5 years in federal rape-you-in-the-ass prison for running an emu does sound a bit harsh, doesn’t it?
#14 by Talorc on November 20th, 2006
Further on in the press release they mention how they are losing actual money:
“This group in particular was downloading our version of the Lineage II software from our servers, costing us close to a million dollars in realized bandwidth costs during the period it was operational”
Sounds like the non payers still downloaded the client updates etc over NCSofts bandwidth, then proceeded to play on the free servers. Stuff like that will only encourage DIY patch distribution in the future like Blizzards “system”.
#15 by Brask Mumei on November 20th, 2006
Glad to hear it involved pirated server code. As such, I cannot object at all to the takedown.
If it had been reverse engineered, I’d be holding a different position.
#16 by Naladini on November 20th, 2006
For an emulator to function, everyone really needs to be running the same version of the client. If the MMO companies would lock up their release files and only allow patches to be obtained by active subscribers, the money loss factor would be removed from the equation. (Or the EMU provider could be quite easily slammed if they were found to be distributing patch files).
Follow that step, and it really just becomes a situation where active subscribers might check out the EMU b/c of alternate rulesets, ability to cheat, minor conveniences, allowed profanity, etc. It wouldn’t matter much if the Emu charged a subscription fee since everyone would be paying their primary subscription anyway, and the publisher would have the advantage of watching someone “co-develop” their product, free to swipe any extra ideas they might like along the way.
#17 by Saben on November 21st, 2006
From what I recall when I heard of the free L2 servers, they were competing with the regular ones, simply because they were more fun. the biggest complaint about L2 has always been that the grind is redicolus, even compared to other games with horribly slow leveling. The free servers offered faster leveling, wich means players could get to the supposedly excelent PvP and siege content in the game, without catassing for a few years first. I did a quick google on this server and they had two versions, 7x and 32x the normal leveling speed. Sadly, it don’t look like this is the experience NCsoft will walk away with.
As for comparing it to UOX servers, it don’t seem it is in the same ballpark, 50k users? UOX isn’t playing in the league.
#18 by Heather Sinclair on November 21st, 2006
Exactly, Lineage 2 is the only game where I’ve seriously considered playing on a pirate server for. I actually *liked* Lineage 2 when I tried it, but when it was an unbearable grind at level 11 there was no point to continuing. I’m still on the mailing list for lineage 2 though from being in beta, and it was greatly amusing when I saw that it took a *YEAR* for the first person to hit cap level in the american servres.
#19 by Ian on November 21st, 2006
I KNOW NAHSINK! [/schultzie]
#20 by Psychochild on November 21st, 2006
Heather Sinclair wrote:
it was greatly amusing when I saw that it took a *YEAR* for the first person to hit cap level in the american servres.
On the other hand, some people claim that’s what makes a game compelling. Read this excerpt from a a post by 3D Realms’ Scott Miller:
I know several people like this. Would Blizzard have made more money with a bit more of a grind? How much grind is too much? How little is not enough to keep people playing (and therefore paying)?
A different perspective on things.
#21 by Heartless_ on November 21st, 2006
For every person you know like that Phsycochild I bet Blizzard can point to hundreds of thousands that aren’t
Blizzard wouldn’t of made a dime if it was a grindy game and if the changes occuring in The Burning Crusade have said anything… Blizzard understands where their money is coming from. Easier and faster dungeons. Leveling speed directly proportional to the content available. PvP honor being changed to a less hardcore grind. Hmmm sounds like Blizzard knows that grindy games suck ass and don’t make money.
I understand the different perspective, but it has been said since day one of WoW and it has been proven wrong by the millions of players Blizzard is keeping happy by simply having a fun to play game at release.
#22 by Heather Sinclair on November 21st, 2006
Psychochild, I’d still rather have people level to the cap, quit, and not come back till the next expansion pack because they had capped out than people who didn’t play the game at all because of the grind.
#23 by damijin on November 21st, 2006
The people who enjoy L2’s grind enjoy it because your character is never “done”.
Currently in L2 you can reach level 80, subclass, reach 80 again, become a “hero” of your main class by winning a 1v1 PvP tournament each month… and then, if you really want to, you can subclass 2 more times.
No one has actually done all that progression yet. And I’m sure by the time someone is close, the cap will be raised again. But the point is that there is an audience of people who want to be in a constant upward movement where if they play more, they can be fractionally above everyone else. Even if being above them doesn’t make them directly “stronger” in encounters, but simply more versatile by having more classes at their disposal.
Heartless may be right, when it comes to WoW players, but I think theres still a large audience of people who like games without easily reachable hard caps on progression, or large bottle necks like raids to progress after a certain point.
#24 by Andrew Crystall on November 22nd, 2006
“The people who enjoy L2\’e2\’80\’99s grind enjoy it because your character is never \’e2\’80\’9cdone\’e2\’80\’9d.”
Thought that was, well, Eve.
#25 by llAbell on November 28th, 2006
Sorry for my bad english. but all i have to say is…
I will allways love L2Extreme server… Best i actually play in oficial server.. but iff L2Extreme server returns ill stop and back for it… :] I just love that server… and all my friends in that server… and have the best Gm\’c2\’b4s to like (Skaar,Heartless, and others).
P.s: The Heartless who type here is the Tempest GM?
#26 by Tellitlikeitis on December 3rd, 2006
What i find funny is that half of you all is prob running a bootleg copy of windows and god knows what else u never paid for and DL and just think about the large amount of shit u have stolen from companies. yet everyone is quick to jump on extreme i’m not saying it was ok to steal but i wont be tossing no stones at them for it.
If l2 lost people to private servers its there own fault that game sucks and was boreing hell look at l2 now what are they doing the same shit private was doing by putting in world Gk’s and hats and all these accessories that private been had so who is copying who now. Ohwell i don’t care its just funny that l2 says they got 100K players on american server while a private had 50k lol they should have hired them to run there offical they would have made some money
#27 by letad henshaw on December 22nd, 2006
how to piracy is illagal to some country? i want to know.
#28 by ULHGACX1 on January 4th, 2007
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#29 by Icarus on January 13th, 2007
This was a really dumb move. They were’nt making players pay, they were a donation server. You donate, you get some items free. I hope the FBI releases the server again. IT was the best L2 server ever. I have never experienced lag.
#30 by Evan on January 1st, 2009
the private server isnt the only thing they got in trouble for.
they were in trouble for steeling files, creit card theft,