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Doing the Undoable: Battlestar Galactica Online
Humor me as I indulge in a thought experiment. Note: I’m NOT working on this. No one I know is working on this. As far as I know, no Galactica game, massive or otherwise, is even in the “gleam in the eye” stage of development. I just like impossible problems.
If you ask any MMO designer (especially ones that have worked on one), MMO games based on movie/TV licenses are hot death. The reasons are pretty simple:
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- Movies are linear. MMO games are nonlinear.
- Movies have a star. MMO games don’t. (Or if they do, they’re part of the scenery.)
- Movies are about passive storytelling. You sit there and entertainment arrives. MMO games are about active participation. You make your own story.
- Movies have an ending. MMO games don’t.
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Even more, the best movies – the ones that play to the strengths of the medium – in so doing, become the absolute worst prospects for becoming backdrops for MMOs. Battlestar Galactica is such a perfect example, it could be the benchmark for why not to do so. Why?
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- BSG is linear. It tells a single story, albeit one that often jumps about.
- BSG is very narrowly focused. The vast majority of the story takes place on one fairly small starship.
- BSG’s strength is in its characters – its stars. The backdrop of the series is actually fairly hackneyed, but thanks to the strength of the writing and the interplay between characters, you don’t really notice.
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So. Assume you’ve been given $50 million dollars and told to make Galactica Online. What can you do? The strikes against you are pretty heavy. Need I list them?
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- Science fiction MMOs have not been commercial successes.
- MMOs based on a commercial license have not been commercial successes.
- The bar of expectations is VERY high among fans of the TV series.
- The series itself is an episodic narrative whose conclusion is unclear. An episode next year could neatly make anything you write nonsensically contradicted.
- The milieu is limited. How do you cram a million players on one battlestar? OK, some are cylons, but you still have an overly limited number of available slots given the game’s storyline.
- Everyone will want to be Starbuck/Adama/Apollo. Nothing new here, but it’s still a problem, especially among players new to the MMO genre.
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Saying “Uh, can I take this money and make ‘Orks Hate Humies’, please?” is probably not an option. Assuming you actually want to make a decent game, how could you do so given the many straightjackets listed above?
Here then, a few options.
It Doesn’t Have To Be Persistent: you could make a massively multiplayer space combat game set within the BSG universe that resets itself frequently. It could be set within BSG’s first season, and the Cylon players try to bring down the Colonial fleet through various scripted and unscripted trickeries. At the end of a given short period, the reset button is hit and it all begins again. This may not even be a roleplaying game, but a straight space sim.
Pros: it’s different, it works within the milieu, it meets expectations for the license.
Cons: BSG isn’t really about combat, most people expect character development and persistence as part of an MMO.
Battlestar Atlantia Online: Hey, look, yet another battlestar survived! Wow, those Cylons are awfully inefficient for being maniacal machines. This is the “Knights of the Old Republic” strategy; when presented with canon that makes it impossible to make a good game, leave canon entirely and carve out your own space fifty-seven degrees off centre.
Pros: you have all the wiggle room you need for canon-related issues, you’re within the same world as the TV show but not shackled to it, the gameplay will come the closest to what MMO players expect from the license.
Cons: It’s not GALACTICA Online, you will have to bend over backwards to introduce players to canon characters from the storyline, you’re still faced with the problem of a limited milieu, i.e. one battlestar.
The Battle For Dead Caprica: In the blasted nuclear desolation of Caprica, thousands of resistance fighters struggle on against the implacable Cylon occupiers.
Pros: close to familiar gameplay from other MMOs, seperate enough from the canon story to give wiggle room while still allowing for “walk-on cameos” of storyline characters.
Cons: no actual battlestars or space combat, game concept is really depressing considering everyone involved is probably going to die of radiation poisoning or being hunted to extinction.
There Are Many Ships In The Colonial Fleet, This Is One Of Them: A sci-fi RPG set on a cargo hauler within the Colonial fleet. Players try to survive as Humanity tries desperately to husband its resources on the long voyage to Earth.
Pros: Well, it’s true to canon, until Ron Moore writes an episode where your ship blows up.
Cons: Gameplay is almost as depressing as being stuck on a radioactive Caprica, with a limited area to move around in to boot.
You See Me Now A Veteran Of A Thousand Cylon Wars: Scroll back the timeline just a touch, to when the Colonies and the Cylons are at war. There, game. Done.
Pros: Easy enough to do, ties in to the new Caprica series for a bonus assist!
Cons: People are going to expect to be able to play within the world of Battlestar Galactica, not trading quips with Adama’s grandfather over pyramid games.
Screw All Of You All, I’m Apollo’s Wingman: IT IS BATTLESTAR GALACTICA ONLINE! FLY ALONGSIDE YOUR HEROES ON GALACTICA AND SAVE HUMANITY FROM THE CYLON HORDES!
Pros: It’s the game the people giving you $50 million want you to make.
Cons: You will probably not actually be able to make a good game from this.
Galactica 1980 Online: Galactica makes it to Earth! Yay! Bad people want to stop them. Time travelling will probably be involved as well as cute space kids going to space camp.
Pros: You can use much of the development budget on drugs.
Cons: Many fans will hunt you down and kill you.
So would YOU do any better?
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about 4 years ago
The only thought I have is that the Cylons match up to current MMO characters rather nicely. There are only 12 models, and they have the ability to ressurrect.
I have no idea how this helps, though.
about 4 years ago
Yes, this is a nigh insoluble problem — with almost any movie IP, for an MMO.
The only way I see out of this is to basically provide a completely different and unique IP that has echoes with, very loosely, the most popular tropes of the existing popular IP in another medium. So instead of a literal War for Middle Earth, you have orcs ‘n elves in Warcraft/Warhammer. Instead of a literal Godfather, you have a Grand Theft Auto (oops, that happened backwards, but ok). Instead of a literal The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, you have, er….. hmmmm…….
about 4 years ago
I think you’re wrong about people not being interesting in sitting around trading quips and playing pyramid. They’ll want that! And dancing, too.
I don’t know the background behind the new series really well. I’ve seen a few episodes…but it strikes me that you could get a heck of a game based on what I recall of the original series. There were many other worlds they happened across, so you could probably assume there are various ones to visit in the conflict.
I’d try it out, at least. Especially if the game mechanics were good.
about 4 years ago
Er, to be clear, I’m not suggesting we deviate from your ground rules and use the old series. I’m just speculating that there might be enough stuff out there in the new series too.
But then, I’ll probably try the Stargate game when it comes out too. I’d like to see a game like that go somewhere. Of course, my social circle here, all the talk is about how Firefly the MMORPG should be designed. Unfortunately, none of us are venture capitalists or experienced MMORPG developers… So we just dream. “It would be like Star Wars before the NGE. And Eve. You could sustain an MMORPG with Firefly’s fan base, even if you can’t sustain a prime time television program.”
about 4 years ago
Well, as I was saying in #hate
I agree that BSG is not written at all to be massively multiplayer. It’s barely agreeable to be even moderately multiplayer at all. As a space shooter I could see you throwing it up to Xwing vs. TIE Fighter status, putting 64 peeps in the same arena, battling it out. The ex-Microsoft game Alligience would be a decent parallel, mixing a space sim with space RTS. With the BSG canon though, it wouldn’t be as deep (or infuriatingly complex) as Alligience was, and would focus primarily on red-hot action.
Otherwise, most decent options for BSG would be single player or VERY limited multiplayer.
BSG RTS: Cylons vs. Humans would be possible, but as stated above, kind of limited unless you really throw in some non-canon things.
BSG TBS: More feasible, if you ask me. Cylons work to find and kill the humans, humans work to cripple the cylons and find a habitable world. You manage both the military and civilian aspects of the human side, trying to keep certain critical supplies coming in and public support as high as possible (or face mutinies and terrorists). Cylons try of course to find and blow up everything, as well as use sleeper agents to sabotague fleet efforts. Each time a sabotuer is caught, however, the humans learn what model that cylon is, and you lose other opportunities that same model would provide. I think the human side would be the more playable model for a gamer, and it would be best as a single player game. Even still, rolling it around in my head makes it feel rather light. That’s the problem with the BSG universe as a whole, it is almost entirely character driven, and trying to pull material from the rest of the universe is difficult.
BSG: The Adventure Game. I can’t remember a direct parallel to the type of adventure game this would be, but I’m thinking something like Deus Ex with less shooting/running/jumping and a bit more thinking. You’re an Ensign aboard the Galactica who gradually works his way into uncovering a cylon sabotuer’s plot to destroy the Galactica. The problem with this model would be A) Incorporating a long enough interesting plot to keep the gamer interesting given that B) Combat would be relatively sparse unless you threw in some curveballs (random raid on a cylon base to introduce space or ground combat). C) Don’t forget that having the actual voice talent in the game would be of high priority. It’s a possible game, but I can’t see it selling too hot given how adventuresque games are often overlooked.
But that’s all kinda moot…BSG will eventually be a space sim because dammit that’s the easy route to go, as Lum suggests.
Me? I’m holding out for Privateer: Firefly. A persistant universe where players travel around in ships transporting cargo, contraband, working for governments, soldiering, pirating, other such Eve-esque activities, with an actual space-sim style control (Again, I’m a Freelancer fan, so go with that type o’ control, maybe with more depth and less whiz-bang action), or hell, maybe even being reavers. Include lots of on-world opportunities for fun/action, and you’ve got it good (space only is too limiting an environ for these games I find).
Lots of interesting possibilities in my eye with a game like that. Rather than griding for money to buy a new, bigger ship, you get better ships as you get more people with relatively consistent /player statistics. Meaning, if your ‘crew’ (read: Clan/guild) is 5 people, you could choose to all be part of a Firefly-class ship appropriate for a crew your size. If you were a crew of, say, 400, your captain could choose a capitol ship class appropriate for your alignment (maybe a big fed ship, big reaver ship, etc), replete with lots of small launchable fighters et al. Of course, that leads to questions of what do all the hundreds of peeps do, who makes decisions, etc, but I’m just going with what sounds cool at first glance on paper right now.
about 4 years ago
Hate to burst your bubble, but EVE is a very successful science fiction MMO. I continue to be amazed how other MMO developers keep turning a blind eye to it….
about 4 years ago
Stargate is an excellent IP for an MMO. Even if you didn’t use Stargate directly, something thematically similar would be a great IP. It, however, is a terrible show. BSG is a great show, and would be a terrible IP for an MMO.
What can we learn from this? The quality of the game is inversely proportional to the quality of the IP it is based on. Look at World of Warcraft. The WoW lore, IP, etc, is all absolute and complete rubbish, probably some of the worst writing and characterization I have ever seen in the fantasy sphere, the books are god awful, and yet, it is massively successful as an IP for their MMO. That way, they can completely contradict themselves (spaceman paladins and shamans in the expansion) and only a small percentage of people will care (because they haven’t realized just how poorly written the WoW lore is yet.) Why do you think DDO went with the Eberon setting? Because no one fucking gives a shit about it.
To make a good game you need an IP with interesting concepts and ideas, but overall very weak characters. I really doubt too many people give a shit about what happens to the Stargate characters after the series ends.
about 4 years ago
Eve was a commercial failure when it launched and its publisher stopped supporting it. It’s a success story NOW thanks to its never-say-die developers and fanatical user base.
However there’s a lot of Eve that simply won’t translate to other games and that GREATLY limit its appeal. A short list includes a character development system *wildly* hostile to new players without a support system, a space sim with no real free-flight mode (all flight is point-to-point to reduce latency), and gameplay that relies on hands-off play over prolonged periods.
about 4 years ago
Something between EVE and Privateer with sim style control I think could do well.
I think what people miss is that ANY game with ANY IP can do well if it is an amazing game. If you make a truly good game, people will flock to it. :/ EVE holds on because it is well designed, though inaccessable to many. If you design a solid game, that’s accessable to all, people will pour in.
about 4 years ago
Nevertheless, EVE succeeded. Now, if you’re asking if a science fiction setting can translate to WoW subscription numbers, then maybe you should be clearer on that point. Honestly, this continuing insistance on using WoW as the measuring stick for future MMOs means you are doomed right out the gate. If you wish to do a BG MMO, then your first step is to stop wanting to compete with WoW. You might find you have some running room then….
about 4 years ago
From what I’ve seen said at conferences, I’m willing to bet that Microsoft makes some kind of Halo IP based MMO game within the next 5 years, that works across multiple platforms (PC, XBOX w/ cel and browser access to some ingame functions)), and is able to pull in WoW numbers.
about 4 years ago
Firefly and Stargate are both vastly superior licenses to build MMOs from than BSG, even though BSG is the superior show. Both have unique challenges as well.
On the other hand, BSG would make one HELL of a good license for a Wing Commander-type game.
I worked for a while on Highlander. Talk about a crummy license for an MMO: Permadeath is the only insoluble rule! Great license for a single player or deathmatchy game, though.
What can we learn from this? The quality of the game is inversely proportional to the quality of the IP it is based on.
Not at all. It boils down to 3 or 4 things:
* Is the license based primarily on a character, or is it a strong thematic world?
* Is the world large enough to explore, and support lots of alternate activities?
* Is the primary activity of the series translate into good, repeatable gameplay? (note, this usually means ‘do people fight a lot’)
about 4 years ago
Let’s go with a varient of ‘The Battle For Dead Caprica’. Nobody survives on world, but if a whole fleet can slip away, surely a few singletons escape. Maybe not everybody dies everytime helpless passenger ships are abandoned by the fleeing military units.
So do In the Wake of Galactica, in which you play isolated survivors, trying to bring together the resources to found a hidden stronghold where you can defend yourself from the pitiless Cylon menace, or find someone who has. Along the way you can find other survivors, creatures and aliens to bargain with or kill for resources, rear area cylon forces, and so forth. The canon can pass by at need, dragging a cometary trail of Cylon events behind it. A vast space based map, with instanced planetary events, and the option for groups/guilds to start in their own isolated pocket of map space as thier own band of survivors.
As to EVE, yeah, it is successful, but not in the definition of success that a major license is going to use. I think we will someday see the blockbuster space game, but we haven’t seen it yet.
about 4 years ago
\’e2\’80\’98do people fight a lot\’e2\’80\’99
Someone go make a GI-JOE MMO then. You don’t even need ressurection, no one ever dies on GI-JOE.
about 4 years ago
But will it have CuteMode?
about 4 years ago
Option one: The non-persistent MMO.
The game takes place on the fleeing Colonial fleet. The game begins with a heavily scripted recap of the events of the pilot episodes, as war breaks out and the fleet assembles.
The game environment is twofold: Shipboard, with a traditional MMO first/third person view of a human character, and space based, with space-sim style control of small craft. (No, BSG isn’t about combat–but combat is a part of the series, and players aren’t going to be happy if you leave it out.) The shipboard side allows access to different ships in the fleet, to make the game geography a bit more varied.
The goal of the game (or a goal, at least) is for as much of the fleet to survive to the end of its journey as possible. Periodic Cylon attacks and random events interfere in this. The better players do at handling these threats, the fewer losses the fleet takes.
The space sim side is the easy one. Take a fighter craft and fly designated missions–patrols, investigations of unusual situations, searches for essential resources, etc. Missions can be scaled to allow for various numbers of players.
Shipboard is the interesting challenge. There’s no room for a combat game, obviously, which cuts out traditional style MMO gameplay. Instead, I envision a number of loosely-related games that overlap in the shipboard environment.
Engineering: A crafting profession of sorts. Various shipboard systems are constantly breaking down, and engineers need to fix them. Repairs require two things: resources and knowledge. Resources come from a number of sources–fleet stores, salvage from damaged systems, and various supply depots/wrecked ships/etc. which can be found and mined by the spaceship pilots. Knowledge comes with your character–if you choose an engineering background, you get several types of engineering knowledge. Engineers can teach this knowledge to other players.
Playing the engineering game requires a player to find sources of resources to use in repairs, and engage in some social networking to learn all the required skills.
Counterespionage: There’s a Cylon agent on the loose. Find it before it can complete its nefarious plan. Something like Clue, something like Mafia, something like The Ship. This is a game of PvP, where nobody is quite sure who the enemy is. When you sign up for the counterespionage game, there’s a small chance that you’re given the role of Cylon infiltrator. All counterespionage players are given periodic assignments (e.g., “investigate airlock D for possible sabotage”), which can lead to information about who may be the infiltrator. To win, identify the infiltrator. Unless, of course, you ARE the infiltrator.
(Main problem with counterespionage: How to handle discovered Cylons? Do people play with disposable characters, do you just ignore the fact that Fred Jones was a Cylon last week, or what?)
And other socially-oriented games of this nature. One goal of the game design would be to make it very easy to add in new game modes like the counterespionage one. Game modes like this should require very little in the way of expensive art assets, so you can implement them rapidly.
Main problem: While I’d love to play this game, I’m not seeing it as a major commercial success. :>
about 4 years ago
Time for me to play outraged fanboi.
Eve had a better launch than Earth and Beyond, and far better than JumpGate. It’s is and as been building it’s own market, with a gameplay “package” very different from Diku, and in my opinion superior in many ways (certainly nowhere near as played-out in its potential).
Because the exponential power curve of EQ, Camelot, and WoW is *so* newbie friendly? Free-flight may not be all it’s cracked up to be, for the same reasons twitch FPS gameplay doesn’t seem to work so well for games based on humanoid avatars: Losers have nothing to look forward to but more losing. I’m not sure exactly which “hands off play” you’re talking about, some of it isn’t a drawback, it’s a strength.
Eve is the *only* subscription game successful on a significant scale (100K+) in the US/European market that is not based on Diku gameplay. Even allowing for the fact I personally enjoy it, it has a lot to teach us about online game design. You sound like the people who used to argue that MMO’s in general were strictly a passing fad, because *they* couldn’t understand why anyone enjoyed them. I’d expect better from you: Success proves they got something right, trying to prove they couldn’t possibly succeed after they have is kind of silly.
–Dave
about 4 years ago
WoW is newbie friendly at the beginning and all the way up until you’ve been 60 for a month, thats pretty impressive. Just because it has a high-end doesn’t mean its not newbie friendly. Games without a high end don’t do well, for whatever reason. DDO has excellent controls, graphics, pretty much the best possible name brand, good and interesting mechanics, but because you can cap out in just a little more than the trial period, and the raids are terrible, it’ll never get good lasting numbers.
about 4 years ago
As much as I love BSG, I just can’t conjure up a way to make a good MMO out of it. For all the reasons you listed and more. It’s just not practical.
The Firefly universe, though, is just begging to be MMO’d. I don’t think you could design a better setting for a sci-fi MMO than that one. It’s got room to move around, plenty of depth to the setting, a wide variety of different groups to be a part of (or avoid), and it’s got that perfect flavor that comes from a setting that’s just a few years past a dirty civil war resulting in just the right levels of conflict for a sustainable long-term interractive narrative. It could be beautiful.
Back to BSG, though … perhaps the answer would be to combine several of the different ideas put forward. Set the whole game as an immersive experience that is happening to someone far in the future learning about their past in a super-cool futuristict immersive museum. Players could then choose which period of “history” to take part in, such as the ground wars on war-torn Caprica or the space battles in the retreating Galactica or playing politician or black-marketeer in the fugitive fleet. This would serve to limit the population preassure of players as there would be multiple alternate versions happening at the same time in a manner that makes sense within the game setting. And if a player really wanted to BE Adama, then there’s probably a way to write that in as well (although since it’s MMO they’d have to earn the right to do so through holding lesser posts first, because that’s how these games work). And after each season those new story threads and settings could be rolled into an expansion set as a new “display” in the museum so that the old “displays” are undisturbed by it’s addition and cannon is never a problem as the game wouldn’t need to outpace the series in terms of story.
about 4 years ago
Firefly is pretty character driven too, I mean without them its just Horde vs. Alliance, in space.
The unfortunate irony is that one of the few good space MMO IPs out there is also owned by Blizzard.
about 4 years ago
I’ll probably need to make a new post just on Eve so I can start the crusades in earnest.
In the end, I can only honestly judge what makes a game fun, past the purely theoretical,\’c2\~ based on what *I* enjoy. And Eve left me completely cold. I felt like I had only a minimal impact on my character, and the gameplay had all the interactivity of Excel. I’m sure that there’s a compelling elder game past that, and I had a support system ready to go in terms of people already within an empire willing to let me join on. But I found the experience of actually *playing* sterile and boring.
Even more boring than Yet Another Diku Clone, which is saying a lot.
There’s a lot from Eve that can be pillaged for a better game, though, which means I should probably make a seperate post.
about 4 years ago
There\’e2\’80\’99s a lot from Eve that can be pillaged for a better game, though, which means I should probably make a seperate post.
Theres so much truth to that. I could never get into EVE either, but that just doesn’t make it a bad game.
about 4 years ago
I agree with the Eve comments.
And Firefly is more than Horde vs. Alliance. It’s so much more. You forget the Reavers, the ultimate “them“. You forget the western setting on a lot of the outer worlds, which of course is a genre that has sorely unrepresented in the MMO industry. The idea, space traveling wayfarers and vagabonds, has been covered ad nauseam, but never with the same humor and caring of the Firefly universe, one which you HAVE to believe would encompass more roleplaying spirit and less asshattery than almost any other IP out there (woe be to those who thought Star Wars would foster roleplaying).
As for Eve…
I remember when it was only popular for being “the pretty” (ironic, now that it’s relatively drab in my eyes). I tried it for a couple months there, and definitely had the same feelings Lum has. It’s sort of like starting a new UO character in a RoT system, only the RoT system is measured in months to years, not weeks to months. But like old-school UO, reach the high-level game where all sorts of intrigue/pvp is possible, and it gets a lot more fun I suppose.
But shuffling through lists of goods, prices, destinations, etc, all so I can eventually warp 14 times to sell some stuff? Not exactly winning my interest for too long.
about 4 years ago
I’d be more down with a really good Wing Commander type game than a MMOG for Battlestar. I just don’t see the long lasting appeal for an MMOG.
about 4 years ago
I thought EvE was boring and impenetrable, and then I read the forums.
(Yes, I could have ended this comment there, with great comedic effect.)
I was blown away by the amount of political and economic discsussion, and the real world analogies I kept seeing popping up. And I was reminded just how much I love the sandbox MMO. Nothing beats it. EvE is like UO on crackroids. Surely Scott “UO: A grand social experiment going horribly, horribly wrong” Jennings appreciates this.
about 4 years ago
Hack together a semi-plausable storyline.
*pay oneself 1 million*
Hire a few good people to begin work on game.
*pay oneself 1 million*
Learn to create a ton of excuses
*pay oneself two million, the end is coming*
Scream about creative differences and quit
*pay oneself one million on the way out*
Oh, this wasn’t a how to get rich quickly thing huh?
about 4 years ago
you could return to the original show, where there are other alien races, the cylons were not made by humans, and people can blow up that stupid robotic dog.
Goe, bought elite force just to kill neelix over and over and over…
about 4 years ago
“Battlestar Galactica is such a perfect example, it could be the benchmark for why not to do so.”
i would’ve thought STAR WARS already held the benchmark title in that department, judging by the smoldering ruins of that train-wreck.
I believe the only way to do BSG:Online “right” would be to make it so individual groups can “host” their own story-line.
Sorta like a group of folks getting together over the course of a few months to hold some super-long D&D campaign.
This of course would fly in the face of the typical MMO. And run the risk of failing miserably. But it’s better than anything else i could think of. It would likely do the best job of giving the most pleasure to the money-funders, the fans of BSG, and MMO fans/Gamers alike.
of course it’s a bit overambitious, as i am an MMO idealist.
- The plot.
– The game session, or “campaign”, would have a definite beginning and a definite end. But the length of time to get from A to B would be up to what goes on during the campaign (meaning that players can have an impact on the outcome).
– The beginning would be the same as that of the TV series. Any point from the moment the Cylons attack, to the moment Galactica rounds up the fleet” and starts to run.
– The end would either be the total destruction of the human fleet, or their arrival at Earth (provided that the end of the series matches that scenario).
- Characters.
– It could be designed so that players can play, or can’t play, as main characters.
– It could be designed so that players can play, or can’t play, as either Humans or Cylons.
- The GM.
– The GM of the game could either be the “game itself” (meaning that the game is designating when major events happen, controlling NPCs (like how MMOs are supposed to be)).
– If the GM is the “game itself”, and you’re NOT allowing players to play as Cylons, the game would direct the actions of the Cylons.
– Or the GM could be an actual player.
– It could be designed so that the GM plays an actual character within the campaign. If you’re allowing players to play as main characters, then one possiblity is to designate the role of Adama as the GM.
– Or that the GM is a “god-like” non-character who just oversees the campaign, directing the major events.
– If the GM is an actual player, and you’re NOT allowing players to play as Cylons, the GM would direct the actions of the Cylons.
- Number of players.
– It should be designed so that any number of players can join a campaign.
– If you’re allowing players to play as main characters.
– The host, or hosts, of the game could delegate who plays which character.
– Or it could just be a first-come, fist-serve system. as people sign up for the campaign, they can choose which character they’d like to play (once all the main characters are taken, they could choose what “type” of character they’d like to play).
– New players could join up with the campaign at any time (to reduce player-loss as players decide to drop out of the campaign).
- Game mechanics.
– Advancement. There would be no XP, so characters advancement would not be focused around XP, but instead would be character driven (hey! just like the show!). In other words social advancement, building up your reputation, making connections.
There’s no time for leveling up your character, as the Human fleet has to get the hell out of Dodge from the beginning, and faces imminent destruction at any moment.
– Environment.
– Damage. Anything, and everything is subject to damage at all times. That includes all characters.
– Environmental considerations. If there is no air to breathe, a Human character will die. Fire burns. Cold freezes. Shrapnel causes wounding. Ect.
– Game-world. The game-world should be similar to EVE’s (a huge freakin’ galaxy, where you can go virtually anywhere!). Each ship in the Human fleet can fly wherever they (the pilot of the ship, whether that pilot is a player or an NPC) pleases.
– If you’re allowing players to play as Cylons, then the same would go for Cylon Basestars.
– Each ship should be fully mapped out (down to crawl-spaces and storage rooms), and characters should physically be able to roam around each ship as they please. The only limitations to characters roaming about would be social ones (for instance, an ordinary civilian should have difficulty getting onto the bridge of Galactica). This would work with the “Social advancement” system, as you may gain/lose access to areas as your character makes new friends/enemies.
– Characters should be able to travel freely between ships, provided they have access to a shuttle/Raptor/Viper or any sort of smaller ship which can fly from one ship to another, and the ships in question have docking capabilities. Once again, the only limitations to this would be social ones.
– A number of planets within the game-world would be fully mapped out, and ships capable of atmospheric flight (Raptors, Vipers, Cylon Raiders) would be able to enter the atmosphere and land on any planet or moon. Environmental considerations should apply (if a Human character steps out onto an airless moon, they will die).
– Character creation. Players can choose where their character begins when they join the campaign. They can choose from any of the Human fleet ships (Galactica, the Astral Queen, ect). Or, if you really want a broadened and interesting campaign, even choose to start on Caprica as a survivor of the Cylon attack. They can also customize their character’s body face (like any MMO), as well as “pack their suitcase” with a limited selection of outfits, depending on where they start (for instance, if they start as a prisoner on the Astral Queen, they would be limited to a prison jumpsuit).
– Classes/Skills. There probably should be a limited Class/Skill system, as the “hit the ground running” feel of the story would prevent new players from learning how to do certain things.
– A “limited Class/Skill system” would mean that when a new player joins the campaign, they can customize their character. Similar to Star Wars: Galaxies’ skill system, they would be allowed a certain amount of “skill points” with which to spend on various skills. Skills could include adeptness with fixing mechanical things, fixing computerized things, healing players, piloting fighter ships, piloting large ships, calculating jumps, ect.
– If you allow players to play as main characters, the main characters would have pre-set skills (Cally and Tyrol would have mechanical-fixing skills, Apollo and Starbuck would have fighter pilot skills, ect).
– If you allow players to play as Cylons, they would choose from types of Cylons (each of the 12 Humanoid models, Centurions, Raiders, or Heavy Raiders) each of which would have pre-set skills.
– If you choose a “classless” design, the actions of players would be open and free. If a player fancies him/herself a “mechanic”, they will have to learn how to “fix” things through a specialized interface (much like how a “fighter pilot” would “blow shit up” through the specialized interface of a fighter cockpit).
– Twitch/Turn-based. The game could be (and probably should be) twitch-based, although, it could be done turn-based, like traditional MMOs. Either way, it should have as much freedom of interaction with the environment as possible. If you chose a “limited Class/Skill system”, specific interactions with the environment (like repairing a broken-down fighter) would be dependent on which skills a character possesses.
– Ground game/Space game. The “ground game” would take place within the ships, or on the surface of planets. The “space game” would take place, you guessed it, iiiiinnnnn spaaaaaace! Flying large ships, Raptors, Vipers (and if you’re allowing players to play as Cylons, Basestars and Raiders). They should both be either twitch-based, or turn-based. No mixing and matching.
– Hitpoints/character damage. A realistic damage system would work nicely. One where getting shot in the arm means that your arm is hurt (ranging from a flesh-wound to no longer having an arm). I suppose a traditional “health bar” could work alright, but it wouldn’t be nearly as interesting (especially for those playing as Doctors).
– Death. Death is permanent for each character. But that doesn’t stop you from jumping back into the campaign as another character.
And that’s pretty much it. The main objective is for the Humans to reach Earth, as destroying the Cylons seems highly unlikely (or if you’re allowing players to play as Cylons, for the Cylons to destroy the Human fleet, or raise up a civilization of Cylon-Human hybrids, or whatever other plots the writers of the show cook up as the series draws to a conclusion).
pretty much everything is up to the GM and the players. If a GM decides he wants to throw the entire Cylon fleet at the Human fleet, he may do so.
I could see certain, more talented BSG GMs gathering a following. Having thousands of players want in on their next campaign.
(damn! i didn’t expect that to be so long and involved. i just kinda wrote it on-the-fly.)
about 4 years ago
Dave Rickey wrote:
Time for me to play outraged fanboi.
Time for me to beat you with the cluestick. Nothing personal, Dave.
Now, before I rip into them, let me be clear that I’m happy for CCP and the success they’ve enjoyed with EVE. I think their success has given the rest of us developers an inspirational story to look at.
Let me repeat: EVE is certainly a success. But, let’s keep things in perspective; it is a very modest success even by pre-WoW standards.
Using the information over at SirBruce’s MMOGChart.com, we can compare EVE with other games. Scott is right, Dave, it was a commercial failure of a launch. The game claimed 15,000 box sales (I think it was sales, although Bruce counts these as subscriptions; we all know box sales != subscriptions). The game then had many mini-plateaus but has seen slow growth most months, with the occasional loss of players. Growth was obviously slowing down until late last year, when they had a jump in growth rate. This is about 2.5 years after their initial launch, remember. This jump has been impressive, with the game almost doubling its subscription numbers in about 6 months.
However, let’s also keep some perspective. According to the latest figures, EVE has 125,625 subscribers after over 3 years. Let’s compare this to other Fantasy-type Achiever-focused games:
EQ1: 7 months (maybe shorter, figures jump from 100k to 150k that month)
DAoC: 8 months (maybe shorter, figures jump from 120k to 200k that month)
Lineage 2: 3 months
EQ2: Sold 150k first month.
WoW: uh yeah, first month, but it’s beat the pants off of every other subscription-based game.
Keep in mind that other games considered to be mediocre successes, such as City of Heroes/City of Villains, have more subscribers than EVE.
So, let’s not pretend that EVE has conclusively demonstrated a large fanbase for non-fantasy games. It has certainly shown that a SciFi themed game isn’t necessarily suicide if you plan appropriately, but it’s not a ringing endorsement than we should start throwing $50 million budgets at creating SciFi type games.
My thoughts,
about 4 years ago
but still, for a cold, uninviting sci-fi MMO, with no ground-game, and PvP-always-on, it’s doing alright.
EVE’s got too many things working against it to be a success when compared with WoW, and it seems to me that few of them have to do with the game’s actual mechanics.
it’s a ringing endorsement that we should start considering moving beyond the cookie-cutter MMO mechanics, because there is a market out there for something else. and that needs to be explored before it’s too late.
eventually supersaturation will wilt this delicate flower
about 4 years ago
Eve definitely represents a niche interest. And, truth be told, the combat leaves me pretty cold, all my fun has come from the politics and economics. My PvP combat record is abysmal, and I haven’t engaged in PvE since my second month.
But it’s been growing while WoW ate the market out from under everyone else. As Kohs points out, there are so *many* things wrong with Eve’s core gameplay, setting, and design philosophy compared to what has become accepted wisdom, that its success makes one question the accepted wisdom. Which is exactly why I find it so interesting.
But the economic system and the elements that lead to the political scheming are *not* neccessarily bound to the gameplay or the setting. These are well worth studying, because I believe they are the saving grace that makes the game worth playing in spite of everything else.
–Dave
about 4 years ago
Should the popularity of steak tartare make hamburger restaurants question the accepted wisdom of cooking meat?
Is Diku-dominated gameplay overused? Absolutely. Should someone be working on alternatives? Yes, please! (And, I think that is part of the subtext of Scott’s post here.) Is EVE Online the game that will launch a thousand business proposals to bring us into a new era of innovative new type of games? Unfortunately, no.
Once again, I’m happy for EVE’s success. I think it validates what I’ve been saying for a while: we should start embracing the niches and creating games for focused audiences willing to pay for what we can make. But, we have to accept it for what it is: niche. So, when Scott said, “Science fiction MMOs have not been commercial successes,” he was absolutely and completely correct when you consider games with budgets like he is discussing. EVE would probably not be able to make back $50M in any sort of timeframe that would make people with money happy. Other games, most notably the derivative yet polished WoW have.
My continuing thoughts.
about 4 years ago
fair enough. i’ll agree that EVE isn’t the game to spark an MMO revolution. but it is definitely a first step in the right direction. albeit a baby step.
it certainly has people talking about the potential of the MMO genre. and when talking leads to doing…
about 4 years ago
I don’t think your analogy is very apt. The current state of the market, totally dominated by Diku-derived fantasy titles, is *extremely* unlikely to be anything more than a transitional state. There was a time when fantasy RPG’s dominated the PC game market, back in the era of Bard’s Tale, Wizardry, the SSI D&D adventures, and Ultima. That day passed, and all that’s left is a handful of franchises (and none of those from that era is still around except as an MMO).
Diku-derivatives will take us to the same place that Korea has already gone. It’s a dead end, it can be refined but not evolved significantly. Sure, there’s money to be made in it, if you’ve got the $50M+ ante, but here’s the thing: It’s only the barest shadow of what the market will eventually become. Someday, sooner than you think, we’ll look at WoW’s 6M users much the way we look at UO’s 250K. And it won’t be Diku-based gameplay that delivers it.
Is Eve all that close to the uber-game that will make WoW look like small potatoes? No more than original NWN was to WoW. And maybe Eve is simply a side-path on that journey. But my gut tells me that the parts of Eve that work, the ones that allow it to succeed in spite of its flaws, are very significant.
–Dave
about 4 years ago
Episodic with fractured reality (http://www.mxac.com.au/drt/FracturedReality.htm)…
1) There are N versions of the battleship, representing N episodes. As your character completes key quests, the character’s episode number increases, meaning that the character’s “home base” is a different version of the ship. This isn’t very different from MMORPGs that start players in a newbie village, then moves them on to a town, then a regional city, then a captial city.
2) As a rule, you can always return quickly to any planet that the battleship has already visited in previous episodes. (Say that jump gates have been established, or whatever.) This allows you to adventure with friends who haven’t yet reached your episode.
about 4 years ago
Rumor has it, based on remarks by series creator J. Michael Straczynski, that there’s an announcement about an “immersive” Babylon 5 game coming….
about 4 years ago
Firefly is the perfect choice, not only is the setting perfect, but it’s a “dead” series so you don’t need to worry about the next season messing up the canon. And you have a rabid fan base just waiting to troll the vn boards.
Success should be measured in terms of profit, plain in simple. The average movie makes $30 Mil opening weekend. Clerks 2 made $10 Mil – failure? Well, it cost $5 Mil to make and The last DVD from Director Kevin Smith pulled in $36 Mil. So Clerks 2 isn’t doing “Wow” numbers, but it is completely ignorant to say it’s not a success. I don’t know what Eve’s numbers are, but if they have a stable base and are making a profit, that’s a success.
Do we really want MMO’s to be “one game like wow” or 20 or so successful games from which to choose from?
about 4 years ago
That’s a great idea. A BSG MMO would work with episodic content simply because the television show has some great episodes. Think about the very one from series one, 33. It’s very game-like – you come into the world not knowing how does what or what history there is between characters, so it’s immediately newbie-friendly. Then, every 33 minutes, the Cylons show up.
That cycle continues until someone wins. Then you reset and play again. Episodes like that, in an MMO, are almost bordering on Casual Games territory. It’s exactly right to say ‘it doesn’t have to be persistent’, in this instance it just needs to be persistant enough for the life of the episodes. Even leaky persisitance is OK, since your character will keep the points gained during each game. The only question is, where do I sign up?
about 4 years ago
The measurement of success is a big question here. City of Heroes is a mediocre success? Isn’t everything in the post-Behem-o-Craft world a failure by definition if subscriber base is the standard? Local restaurants of any number of stars are all a failure in the shadow of McDonalds then because the chances that an American’s next meal will come from there is 1 in 8.
about 4 years ago
The problem with Battlestar is that you’re stuck on a fleet. Rarely does anyone besides the cast visit planets, and when they do, it’s for short periods of time. So basically, your zone options are: Battlestar Galactica, some freighters and some converted colony vessels.
What would your class options be? The only one anyone would want is fighter pilot. They have a finite supply of fighters, there honestly isn’t much space combat in the new series, and you really can’t explore much because you need to stick with the ever moving fleet.
Unless you radically change the game to the point where it barely resembles the IP, a MMOG based on BSG would blow.
about 4 years ago
Some problems with making a character-oriented MMO from BSG are even more basic than what has been discussed – and correlate closely with the difficulties most SF MMOs seem to encounter.
What are the results of dying? If not permadeath, what, and how the heck do you explain it in any reasonable strech of BSG technology? Cylons get a pass on this one, but what about humans?
Ranged weapon combat poses multiple issues. First and foremost, how the heck do you present furturistic weapons that make any kind of sense but avoid the seriously unfun one-shot-kill scenario? Secondly, ranged combat puts a premium on the client having up-to-the “tick” information on the location of everything around your character. Huge issues of internet lag, bandwidth bottlenecks, server throughput, and unequal client connection & hardware capabilities ensue. Third, range adds LOS issues to the mix, and further stresses the client hardware by pushing out the LOD range requirements.
about 4 years ago
Dave Rickey wrote:
The current state of the market [...] is *extremely* unlikely to be anything more than a transitional state.
Sure, but I think the revolutions will come first in business model rather than merely in content. The core reason why we have a dominance in Fantasy is because it supports the “tank-healer-DPS” type gameplay so well, and we focus on that because it is the most effective way to keep people paying the subscription. We haven’t been able to fit the holy trinity into other settings as well, thus the lack of interesting alternatives to High Fantasy settings in online RPGs.
The larger issue is getting the audience in to play games beyond what we currently have. As I’ve said before, one of the key ingredients in WoW’s success was branding, so that might be an avenue we can look at to expand the audience for a new type of game. The low hanging fruit has always been to pander to the existing audience (the one that loves High Fantasy type games), the next step is to get the step ladder and go for the slightly out of reach fruit (which might even be a bit more profitable.)
bloo wrote:
Local restaurants of any number of stars are all a failure in the shadow of McDonalds then because the chances that an American\’e2\’80\’99s next meal will come from there is 1 in 8.
That’s probably the worst analogy you could have picked. The only thing more foolish than trying to compete with WoW on an independent game budget is trying to open a small restaurant (or coffee shop). From everything I’ve read and heard, you’d be better off buying a wood-burning stove, throwing your life savings in paper money into the stove, lighting it on fire, then cooking yourself a nice meal. You get the same result with less nervous breakdowns in the walk-in freezer. Local restaurants fail on a regular basis, much worse than other types of businesses, sucking a lot of money. So, yeah, most local businesses are failures. On the bright side, it rarely takes $50M for them to fail.
And, again, keep in mind that that $50M is the context here, as Scott mentioned above. EVE Online does not prove that a Sci-Fi game with a $50M budget is a smart thing to do. Again, it shows that a Sci-Fi game is not guaranteed suicide in some situations with a dedicated team, incredible patience, and a lot of luck. The fact that they’ve turned a profit is nice, but not proof of anything; Meridian 59 has turned a profit as well, but I don’t see anyone claiming that this proves PvP-focused games with DOOM-type graphics engines are viable as a huge-budget game. (Hint: they’re not.)
Further thoughts.
about 4 years ago
I side with the Firefly camp. There is so much world there already, and near inifinite possibilities due to it. Plus, it not being a huge brand or anything means a potentially lower licensing fee, meaning more buck for the game and selling it. Finally, Whedon just seems like the sort of guy who’d really love to see the series continued (though I gotta say, he’ll need to resurrect two characters for me to like him again
).
BSG is not yet totally realized, for one. For another, it is extremely linear, which while that has been pointed out, sets the tone for the entire show. Even Star Wars isn’t as linear, as the lore (EU specifically, including the games) has been able to jump all throughout a history spanning some 50,000 years). BSG has but one storyline, and any deviation is an imagination/dream sequence. For sci-fi, it really doesn’t allow for any whacky sci-fi tech like time travel or alternate realities.
Finally, I think Stargate and Star Trek will help us asses the viability of licensed-based sci-fi themed MMOs. It takes three times to have a conspiracy after all
about 4 years ago
63M development budget for WoW. *Camelot* was reaching for low-hanging fruit, leveraging the lessons learned from EQ and the tech base Mythic already had to make a game for less money that did well. No Fantasy Diku will ever do that again. There is nothing “low-hanging” about competing with WoW directly.
Part of our mistake is that we’re asking the wrong questions. “How do we make a Sci-Fi themed game that can do as well as WoW?” is the wrong question. The right question is “What gameplay ‘packages’ that are not Diku-based are ripe for adaptation to an MMO environment?” If the package lends itself to a Sci-Fi theme, then create a sci-fi game.
“Theme” does not equal genre. A fantasy theme can be used for an RTS, an RPG, a “Sneaker” a shoot-em-up FPS, or a beat-em-up fighting game, and those games will have nothing particularly in common. Fantasy is not a genre, it’s just a backdrop that makes any wierdness your tecnical limitations or lack of prior design art impose easy for the audience to ignore. Sci-fi is somewhat less forgiving, historical less, and contemporary even less. Until the jarring un-realism of the games has either been overcome, or accepted as a invisible convention, fantasy is what works.
We have a “genre” of Diku-derived fantasy games that current dominates, as D&D-derived CRPG’s once dominated video games in general. We have a handful of outliers that represent the early efforts of entirely different genres to examine. Those are where the greatest opportunities lie.
But you don’t reach those from the safety of a step-ladder. You have to throw yourself at them with total commitment, trusting that there will be something to grab onto.
–Dave
about 4 years ago
Mythic might just do it again. If Camelot was an EQ clone with better PvP, then WAR might just be a WoW clone with better PvP. And like half the playerbase of WoW is talking about WAR, because WoW’s PvP gets more hopelessly disappointing each patch. While I don’t have a lot of faith in Mythic after some of their design decisions with Camelot (and not the ones most people take issue with either), they COULD just pull it off, and get half a million US subs and then another half million from other countries. Maybe.
about 4 years ago
Reading the updates it occurs to me Wow is somehow become an unstoppable force – when did this happen? Has Wow even had a challenger since it’s launch? I’ve quit wow, I know three friends who have quit, I get the impression readers here have quit – why do we give Blizzard credit for perfection when we ourselves don’t play the game, or are playing it til the next thing is released. Isn’t it a much more likely view that wow *increased* the number of MMO aware gamers, making a much larger pool to draw customers from?
On topic, this is kinda pointless anyway. Fantasy and Scf-fi (and westerns) are settings, not genres. There is nothing fundamentally different between Lord of the Rings and Star Wars – both are adventure tales with very similar elements. On is in space, the other on grass. Perhaps the success of these is not in the scenery, but elsewhere?
about 4 years ago
Kudos to Mr. Neal! “Isn\’e2\’80\’99t it a much more likely view that wow *increased* the number of MMO aware gamers, making a much larger pool to draw customers from?”
Not very long ago, 200k subscribers was a smash hit; 100k was a very good launch and 400k was amazing, unprecedented and spawned myriads of “can it be dethroned?” articles.
Now WoW is the king with ~6.5 million subscribers and so on Bruce’s site a successful game such as DAoC (150k subscribers) is shown as a mere 1.0% market share. Oh no! Only $2.25M/month revenue! Doom!
The unspoken secret is: if your team is the right size for your product, profit results. Against all odds, WW2O taxies to victory still with ~10k subscribers. Smaller yet, Aces High and WarBirds tally maybe 1000-2000 subscribers each: AH has been going for 7 years now, WB for 11 (since Memorial Day, 1995).
Just because the game media sees every online game as a challenge to WoW (previously EQ) doesn’t mean every MMOG project *is* or should be trying for that customer base.
Example: Mist wrote: “DDO has excellent controls, graphics, pretty much the best possible name brand, good and interesting mechanics, but because you can cap out in just a little more than the trial period, and the raids are terrible, it\’e2\’80\’99ll never get good lasting numbers.”
“You” (the same theoretical ‘you’ that caps out DDO in 10 days) can cap out WoW in 3 weeks, too, and that was at launch; it’s probably faster now. That’s not the factor, then. What is it? Raids and PvP. Here’s news: not everyone in MMOG-land lives to play uberboy in PvP or to hack through the social drama surrounding raid guilds (which make Charmed look mature and drow as described by Salvatore look like Girl Scouts).
However, the large Asian market does appear to love the competitive CPRG, and lots of social gamers love their guild intrigue (maybe they didn’t get enough of Jr. High), so DDO will never top WoW’s subscription numbers. “Good” lasting numbers are a misnomer — what matters is claiming, holding, and increasing a core base that provides profitability.
Yes, WoW has impacted EQ, or DAoC — because those are fundamentally the same sort of game. WoW hasn’t touched EVE’s numbers, or those of WW2O, because they’re not. If you like analogies: the number of people who buy Hummers doesn’t really impact the number of people who buy Porsches, even though they’re in the same (roughly) price range. (You can pick which corresponds to what type of MMOG, it’s just an analogy and not a value judgement).
If Bruce ever starts publishing numbers where the *total* MMOG market is contracting, that’s a different matter. Until then the valid criteria is “can I satisfy MY customer base” not “can I satisfy the LARGEST customer base” or “can I satisfy the gaming press looking for something to dethrone WoW.”
Oh, Firefly would be a terrible MMOG despite much potential. The existence of purist fans who would wax apoplectic over every decision that made the game playable at the expense of a real or percieved bit of Firefly canon would doom the effort.
about 4 years ago
Dave Rickey said:
That is aside my point, which was that no matter how successful a local restaurant is, even if it Wolfgang Puck or Gordan Ramsey, it is a ‘failure’ if volume (or size of subscription base) is the standard.
I would have used the movie analogy, and I did earlier in the day on my blog, but Mr. Neal beat me to it.
about 4 years ago
Further exemplar regarding how everything, regardless of its intent, is reviewed as if dethroning WoW was the be-all of gaming:
http://www.gaminggroove.com/article.php?id=73
about 4 years ago
That was Psychochild (Brian Greene) with the restaurant rebuttal, not me.
Anyway, yes, there’s definitely a sizable market of former and current but disaffected WoW players that can be reached out for. But the cost of reaching out to them with a WoW-like game will be extremely high. A rising tide lifts all boats, but if you’re competing with a cruise liner, rolling out a new tramp steamer won’t cut it. You could count on 500K with a competently executed WoW clone, which would justify the $50M budget to qualify as “competently executed” by players who have gotten used to the production values and content scope of WoW.
–Dave
about 4 years ago
Just a question. Are we only spending $50M for development of this game (engine/graphics) or does that include staffing, marketing, support centers, hardware, etc. in this budget?
about 4 years ago
From the consumer point of view, I’d pay for 2, 3, and 5… Based on the descriptions.
about 4 years ago
Dethroning WoW aside, I do not think that BSG can be made to be a fun MMORPG without ditching significant portions of its BSG-ishness.
Honestly, if some dude came to my door with $50mil and told me to make Battlestar Online with it… I am not sure if I would try to talk him down, check his meds, or just tell him to go to hell.
about 4 years ago
Although it’s lacking in story and character, Vendetta Online simulates BSG-style space combat pretty accurately in physics mode with ships strafing around each other in circles and banking and rolling and whatnot.
I never really got the hang of it but watching videos of pilots who knew what they were doing always reminded me of BSG. Pilot a Warthog to make it even more authentic.
about 4 years ago
Crap. My apologies, Dave. I need to wear my glasses more often.
about 4 years ago
Geez, walk away from the computer for a day…
First, “Fantasy” is a genre, just as “DIKU-style” gameplay is a genre. In literature, both “Fantasy” and “Novels” are genres, even if the describe very different aspects of the story. The term may be inprecise, but I am not using it incorrectly. The popular games out there happen to fall into the intersection of the first two genres listed above: Fantasy and DIKU-style.
Second, yes, I know that small scale doesn’t instantly mean failure. I’m one of the few people here to to put my money where my mouth is. Well, more like credit cards instead of money. But, anyway, M59 has been profitable as a business despite having a tiny subscription base. Small can be modestly profitable. But, once again: we are not talking about small here if we stick with what Scott mentioned above, particularly with a $50M budget.
As for Dave Rickey, Austin is in about a month. I’ll beat him up then. RLPK, baby!
Have fun,
about 4 years ago
Phooey. If both “fantasy” and “Diku” are genres, then the term “genre” is a generic muddle that is useless for discussions of game design. Something with more precision is neccessary to separate the gameplay from the background. I’m fine with ditching the word entirely, if we can find something better to describe gameplay systems.
–Dave
about 4 years ago
Okay, I’ll admit… I was in Australia when BSG hit, and I’ve only seen the opening miniseries. (Yes, I know BSG came to Australia, but I didn’t own a TV. And I know the first season and a half are out on DVD. I still don’t own a TV.)
Part of the reason that Stargate, Star Trek, and Firefly work better than BSG (and a number of other licenses) is because the shows are built around episodic away missions, and you can make excuses for any number of teams working in parallel on different missions. Instanced content is a total no-brainer for these licenses, since canon supports small teams working independently, without really running into each other much.
Shows like B5, DS9, and BSG tend to be much more sedentary. Rather than being proactive (let’s go solve this problem!), the action is largely reactive (omg we’re under attack!). Reactive games are bad, because constant defense can be boring, repetitive, and psychologically exhausting — like a never-ending game of Missile Command.
Ironically, the latter environments are what work the best for RP-MUDs. Roleplayers need a central stage for their pick-up roleplay, and a large, sedentary, captive audience — with secrets, a looming background crisis, human drama, and meaty politics — is just what the doctor ordered.
So, I could probably make you an utterly fantastic RP-MUD based on BSG, but it’d be the niche of the niche, and my investors would be dreadfully unhappy.
about 4 years ago
Phooey. If both \’e2\’80\’9cfantasy\’e2\’80\’9d and \’e2\’80\’9cDiku\’e2\’80\’9d are genres, then the term \’e2\’80\’9cgenre\’e2\’80\’9d is a generic muddle that is useless for discussions of game design.
And yet the term has worked for literary discussion for longer than the computer game industry has been in existence. The term can usually cover theme (e.g., fantasy), style (e.g., biography), and format (e.g., short story) of a work; any particular work can belong to various genres, and the final story is an intersection between these different types of genres. The term “genre” is by definition and necessity a fuzzy term.
Are you really willing to admit the lit eggheads are smarter than you are, Dave?
Perhaps the best thing would be to adopt a modifier to “genre”. So we could talk about theme genres (e.g., fantasy), gameplay genres (e.g. DIKU-style), and graphical genres (e.g., stylized graphical presentation). But, the term “genre” is still correct and sufficient for the discussion, IMNSHO.
about 4 years ago
Ummm…no.
(Hi Raph)
But with the qualifiers, it’s usable, so I’ll pick a different windmill to charge, language fights are usually more work than they are worth.
–Dave
about 4 years ago
Really? Star Trek? If anything, Star Trek is WORSE than BSG… it is hopelessly saddled with a strict command hierarchy and every week there is a completely new piece of the world introduced to meet the demands of that week’s episode. At least with BSG there is more than one ship in the convoy. The Star Trek MMO that’s in the works seems like it has a tough row to hoe.
Stargate (You know, that show that totally kicks BSG’s ass
is practically ideal. It has a practically unlimited set of worlds to visit, ready-made mission-based gameplay, and a decent number of bad guy types to fight. The game play there isn’t a problem at all.
If Firefly had lived, it would have become a rich world to set an MMO in. The Buffyverse certainly did, and the final episode even turned “slayer” into a character class.
about 4 years ago
about 4 years ago
Dagnabbit! Why doesn’t this blog engine have preview or edit capabilities? One misplaced
about 4 years ago
There are exactly two liscenses I would consider working on: Mad Max, and the Buffiverse. Not just because I’m a fan, but because those two both involve worlds that it would be possible to put the player into, without the player automatically expecting to follow the main character’s development arc on rails.
Star Trek, I would run away screaming. BSG, I’d just laugh and say “good luck with that.” I’m a fan, but precisely because I am a fan I know that what makes the franchise compelling would be impossible to deliver in an MMO: The confrontation of the unknown. In an MMO, nothing can ever be unknown for long, and faking it won’t cut it for those liscenses. Max Max and Buffy, on the other hand, are essentially a dark mirror held up to our familiar world, each in different ways.
Auto Assault will probably poison the well for post-apocalyptic vehicle-based games for a while, much as Earth and Beyond poisoned the well for space exploitation and combat games (Eve not with-standing, do you see a line to make more of them?).
But the Buffiverse…That would be cool.
–Dave
about 4 years ago
A lot to ponder here. I just thought I’d mention that the chain of command in Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica tend to be another reason why they are poor choices for multi-player RPGs, even pen and paper kind. Players like to go where they want, not be told what to do.
about 3 years ago
Id be more intrested in controling Capital ships and fighter craft in a first person sort of way. A Multiplayer crew for the Base ships and anoyone else strapped into Vipers and Cylon Fighters to fight it out in the deep reaches of space. Throw in some extras like resouce and logistics, make a nice starmap to follow with perhaps more then one path to earth and have at it. THis dosnt have to be over complicated. Problem with developers now days is they make games too detailed just to try to suck money out of the player, the game arnt fun to the regular pastime players. Thats my 2 cents.
about 3 years ago
For anyone interested there is an excellent game called Space empires.
So far the latest release,, Space Empires V has a lot of bugs in it and can be frustrating, however, it is a game for the modding community and there is a battlestar mod being made.
It is effectively total war in space (kind of) and is very fun to play.
Th IV release is also an excellent game and there may already be a mod. So for those of you who want to interact with the spaceflight side of BS it might be worth a look
about 3 years ago
You forgot another option… players are cylons. Screw humanity. Screw the heroes… they’re the targets. Obviously the problem with that is not everyone wants to be the bad guys. Especially in a morality tale like BSG.