Like every other geek, I saw “V for Vendetta” this weekend. (I’m not kidding – I went to go see it with 2 other game developers, and we ran into another one coming out of the theatre. Someone should have passed the hat for Jack Thompson’s legal aid fund or something.)
I’ve noticed a common theme among some liberal blogposters – that V will “wake up the sleeping public” to the evil that Bush’s men do and, hopefully, the aroused electorate will show up to the ballot box next election in Guy Fawkes masks voting a straight Democrat ticket.
Well, I don’t tend to agree – among other things, I suspect if that happened, said suddenly enlightened electorate would be pretty disappointed at the almost identical results they’d get – but I do think the movie had some pretty important things to say at the margins.
Not so much the overt stuff; just as an example, I never read the graphic novel but I’m given to understand that the movie inherits its bludgeon-like “THOU SHALT NOT BE MEAN TO GAY PEOPLE” message from Alan Moore’s belief in the 80′s that Margaret Thatcher was trying to drive out homosexuality from Britain a la St. Patrick. With Britain being among the most tolerant of Western societies towards gays, that whole subtext just rang a bit wrong for me, and I’ve never even been to the UK. And like anything else the Wachowski brothers have written, most of the plot points don’t hold up to much thought. I know if *I* were a secret policeman the first thing I’d be doing is running down some leads on who bought 12 million Guy Fawkes masks and then signed for all of them to be overnight delivered. But hey, I’m annoying that way. And the entire surprise theme midway through the movie (which I won’t discuss further to avoid spoilers) just rang entirely hollow; even though it too was in the graphic novel, it made no sense to me from any perspective, dramatic or rational.
Where the movie actually delivers is in the imagery and messages being delivered subtly from the margins. The raw manipulation of truth in the mass media by those in power being the most obvious of these (news flash to those not paying attention – that part isn’t science fiction any more, and hasn’t been for some time), but also the appropriation of iconic images from Iraq and Guantanamo, paired to equally iconic images of concentration camp victims, is as frankly subversive a message as I’ve ever seen in a movie. And this is a good thing. When our society collaborates in the toleration of evil, it’s the artist’s duty to point and decry. Paired with the constant barely-below-the-surface “Threat Level Orange” alerts and the apparently literal outlawing of the Muslim faith, the filmmakers very much wanted to communicate “This is where we are going, if we don’t do something. Stop.”
Taken this way, the closing scenes of the masses going all Tienanmen on the government’s soldiers (who I’m sure through no accident wore American-style uniforms) were frank wish fulfillment, and it was wish fulfillment that by that point I shared. Screw the whole blowing buildings up thing – by that point it was simple anticlimax; backdrop for more fireworks. And I think that too was the message being sent – the real victory was in waking the people up to watch, not in the act of terror.
Some reviews can’t get past the whole “OMG the good guy is a terrorist! Does not compute!” I’d recommend those reviewers read up on their Thomas Jefferson. Because of late the tree of liberty seems to be a bit parched.
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I agree with what you said.
This movie has a lot of imagery but the subtle stuff is what really got me. Hugo’s elocution played off of Nat-nat’s dialog masterfully. At times I found myself just listening to the sound and not the actual words… which may have been a bad thing. Oh well. It was still good.
Also: If you didn’t see it in imax you might as well have just stabbed yourself in the eye with a fork. The experience has ruined me for all future movie-going.
Yeah, most of the early reviews of V were either those who knew the original comic and picked the movie to pieces for its differences, and those who didn’t know the comic and thought it was oh so very dangerous.
V is a great movie. Great action, great dialogue, great subtext. Quite a few awkward moments, way too much sexual politics as opposed to the other forms (including and especially those discussed in the book,) the lead actors couldn’t keep their accents straight, but certainly the first time an Alan Moore graphic novel has been adapted well for the screen. Yes, I know that’s not saying much after From Hell and LXG.
Incidentally, the whole business with Thatcher, according to Moore, were borne of racial “civil war” riots mostly around Brixton in 1981, but there was an anti-homosexual bent to the Conservative Party at about that time — it didn’t really start coming out until the middle of the decade, however — but it was all coming from the government, not British society as a whole (at least as I’ve been able to understand it.) Supposedly Thatcher herself once commented during the “gay plague” fears of the early 1980s that HIV-positive people needed to be rounded up and put into camps, but I’ve not found a direct quote like that except from Moore (and Warren Ellis, and several other British comic writers).
Suffice it to say a lot of comic book creators -really- didn’t like the Thatcher-era Conservative government.
“Paired with the constant barely-below-the-surface \’e2\’80\’9cThreat Level Orange\’e2\’80\’9d alerts and the apparently literal outlawing of the Muslim faith, the filmmakers very much wanted to communicate \’e2\’80\’9cThis is where we are going, if we don\’e2\’80\’99t do something. Stop.\’e2\’80\’9d”
Which works because that’s what Moore was going for when he wrote the original comic. “This is where we’re going if you leave Thatcher in power. Stop it.”
Possible spoilers:
I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I did read the comic. I never really thought of V as a terrorist. Maybe I’m taking the term too literally, but he wasn’t out to scare people into doing what he wanted; he killed them and “gorged their ideology”. Terrorism IMO is too “cultish” for V; he’s more the loner type. He has at least some moral ambivalence (although he certainly thinks he’s choosing the lesser of two evils).
superficial crap.
it is extremely easy to make a superficial case that any person in a position of power is dictitorial or tyrannical and needs to be stopped. this is a key aspect of agitprop and brings to power most dictators.
Goe, agin’ it.
I\’e2\’80\’99ve noticed a common theme among some liberal blogposters – that V will \’e2\’80\’9cwake up the sleeping public\’e2\’80\’9d to the evil that Bush\’e2\’80\’99s men do and, hopefully, the aroused electorate will show up to the ballot box next election…
After the 2000 election, Diebold, Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, non-existent WMD, illegal wiretapping, Halleburton, and the Patriot Act, anyone who thinks a movie (especially a movie that asks the public to engage their brain) is going to wake the public up is dillusional. We have our bread and circuses, so we are content to be oblivious. It won’t take an act of defiance to wake up the masses, it will take expensive gas. /rant off.
I haven’t read the graphic novel, but I didn’t think the story translated well to the big screen, simply because it asks the audience to think about some very complex issues, but it doesn’t give you the time to really absorb them. At least in print you have the time to pause for thought, to decide if you really agree with what you’re being asked to agree with. Still, I think it was an important movie to make, if for nothing else than to break out of the typical action movie mold.
“After the 2000 election, Diebold, Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, non-existent WMD, illegal wiretapping, Halleburton, and the Patriot Act, anyone who thinks a movie (especially a movie that asks the public to engage their brain) is going to wake the public up is dillusional. We have our bread and circuses, so we are content to be oblivious.”
I disagree. Movies in our society have far more effect on individuals than they rightly should. Think back to when The Passion Of The Christ came out a few years ago, and how many militant Christians came out of nowhere afterwards. Think back to how, a few years back, every major news outlet continually convered the threat portrayed in the most recent natural disaster-based TV mini-series.
Americans, perhaps all people, have an irrational tendancy to be influenced by what they see. There is no reason for this movie to be any different.
However, I will grant you that a populus capable of being so easily swayed by a simple film is far from a good thing either. I, personally, plan to leave the country either way.
I don’t think Passion of the Christ rallied any Christians that weren’t already going to be rallied anyway. In the same way that Faranheit 911 didn’t rally any liberals that weren’t already going to rally. Those movies made their respective fans louder perhaps, but I seriously doubt they had a big influence.
That’s not to say that I think people are completely removed from being influenced by movies or television. I remember reading an article somewhere that when the X Files was at it’s height, there was an episode where Scully drove a convertable Mustang. Sales of new Mustangs to females increased dramatically over the next week. So we are definitely influenced, but I don’t think most people will be influenced to, say, vote differently or decide that homosexuals should be treated better. V is a good movie, but I think in the grand scheme it will hardly matter, because we Americans are too self-absorbed in our own comforts.
Sorry to see you leave Tolmar. Put Canadian stickers on your luggage.
As Alan Moore put it, this was still very early in his writing career, and V was based on him looking back at all the British fictional heroes he’d enjoyed in comics and other books as a child. “I realized most of them were sociopaths.”
“Terrorist” wasn’t a term that was nearly as in vogue in 1982 as it is today, but Moore has used the term to describe V since then.
“The raw manipulation of truth in the mass media by those in power”
Bastards! Next they’ll be using *pop culture* to spread political messages!
…
“I don\’e2\’80\’99t think Passion of the Christ rallied any Christians that weren\’e2\’80\’99t already going to be rallied anyway. In the same way that Faranheit 911 didn\’e2\’80\’99t rally any liberals that weren\’e2\’80\’99t already going to rally. Those movies made their respective fans louder perhaps, but I seriously doubt they had a big influence.” – Amber
I agree that neither movie at first rallied groups that would not have otherwise been rallied otherwise but the movies did have a big influence in that they drew media attention to the groups they probably would not have gotten had the movies not been made. And as the media attention grew, so did the groups rallying around or against the movies, which drew even more media attention until both turned into media frenzies.
In a country so obsessed with celebraties and entertainment, movies and TV are great tools for drawing attention to an issue and that is where their real influence comes in to play. The sad thing is our country is so polarized the debate usually ends up turning into “Our side is right, your side is wrong” agruements without ever looking at the merits of different positions.
Well, one of the other important pieces is that while V is referred to as a terrorist he’s only referred to as such by the government he’s fighting against. Face it, history is written by the victors. That’s why it was interesting that they brought up (in passing) the Boston Tea Party which was absolutely an act of terrorism other than the fact that we won and decided it was an act of patriotism.
Great movie.
V for Vendetta (the movie, I haven’t read the original) felt like a remake of George Orwell’s 1984, except with a happy ending. 1984 and Animal Farm are full of plot holes which were intentionally ignored by the author since the vision of the world were hyperbole, like all good sci-fi/speculative fiction.
In your post, you mention the gay oppression theme in V, but forget to mention the Muslim oppression theme. They are the same thing in the film, and are based in reality. Shortly after 9/11 when governments were writing up their anti-terrorism legislations, it may surprise you to know that Muslim and gay rights groups (and others) got together to discuss strategy to oppose such measures. Loss of freedoms affects all minority groups equally. It can start with an anti-Muslim movement today, move on to anti-gay, then anti-Jew, then anti-Asian, etc. etc…
>>In your post, you mention the gay oppression theme in V, but forget to mention the Muslim oppression theme.
argh, repost as the last one got cut off
[i]In your post, you mention the gay oppression theme in V, but forget to mention the Muslim oppression theme.[/i]
well of course: the movie bludgeons you over the head with the gay oppression theme (with 2, possibly 3 as it’s sort of ambiguous as to whether V is gay or not) characters, while muslim oppression is reduced to a throwaway “I keep a koran, even though I’m not a muslim, cause it looks pretty” comment.
>> while muslim oppression is reduced to a throwaway \’e2\’80\’9cI keep a koran, even though I\’e2\’80\’99m not a muslim, cause it looks pretty\’e2\’80\’9d comment.
The UK hardly qualifies as gay-tolerant: don’t let the last thirty years fool you. Just ask Alan Turing, eh?
Both parties would be content to set up a dictatorship, if you ask me.
The only way to reclaim America is either through voting -all- of the bastards out, or… through direct application of our Second Amendment rights.
Either way, I don’t have my hopes up.
Weird, it ate my comment, or something, when I tried to quote Heather’s post. Not sure what the hell I did.
–TR
With regards to movies ability to affect the public, didn’t “Top Gun” significantly increase Navy recruiting? Imagine all those seamen humming “Danger Zone” as they scraped barnacles off the Nimitz.
Also, I think someone said high gas prices didn’t wake up the public. From what I understand, the gas prices aren’t high enough yet. I think if gas prices had stayed low or lowered as some folks expected, the current administration would have better numbers and a lot of Americans wouldn’t mind Iraq so much. The Mob is fickle. I imagine that when gas hits around $5 a gallon, and a monthly gas bill surpasses a car payment, nobody is going to envy the president, whoever he/she might be at the time.
“belief in the 80\’e2\’80\’99s that Margaret Thatcher was trying to drive out homosexuality from Britain”
At the time Moore wrote VfV, the “clause 28″ controversy was big news. It was a law that made it illegal for local governments (including schools) to “promote homesexuality” as an acceptable family relationship.
More at wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28
In his preface to the graphic novel, Moore wrote that he felt that Thatcher was trying to “eradicate homosexuality as an abstract concept”.
Of course it didn’t happen; but the politics of it at the time was pretty fraught, and that’s where Moore was writing from.
The whole “the public is asleep when the political party I don’t like is in office but the public is awake when the party I do like is in office” is an unbelieveably narrowminded and shallow way of thinking. Anyone who believes this isn’t capable of reasonable thought or analysis.
Yay, Zod!
Goe, applauding common sense.
Zod, Reloaded:
Discussion and ciriticism of the words and actions of the political party currently in power is a sign of narrowmindedness and shallow thinking. Those who disagree with Zod aren’t capable of reason or thought.
Doz
ps. Minus points for creating a strawman statement – nowhere is the manufactured quote you rail against presented like that in the original post or by that posts references to third party commentators.
I feel quite strongly that the real message that should be gleaned from V for Vendetta has nothing whatever to do with which political party is currently in power, or that Thatcher was horrible. Let’s look a little deeper please. The message is about THOSE WHO SEEK POWER FOR POWER’S SAKE, and the lengths they will go to in order to attain and keep it. Do you think Jack-booted thugs only march under the banners of Conservatives and Republicans? Have we forgotten that the NAZI party was the National SOCIALIST Party? Have we forgotten what happened at Waco Texas under that paragon of modern statist liberalism, Bill Clinton (oh that’s right those Waco people were RIGHT-wing radicals, which makes slaughtering them OK)? WAKE UP!!! This is not about political parties. It is about POWER and LIBERTY. Democrats and Republicans are the same. They both play the game. The only thing different between them is what they say, which is aimed at keeping the people divided while they entertain one another at expensive dinner parties.
As long as we continue to see these movies in terms of what party it is attacking, we will continue to miss the opportunity that a movie like this affords us. The equation is not Republican Conservative vs. Democrat Liberal. The equation is Liberty and Freedom vs. Tyranny and Subservience. Liberty and Freedom will only thrive in a society where the government fears its people, which can only be the case when the people see through the lies that divide them. Tyranny flows not from a particular party, but from the will to POWER, which infects anybody no matter their outward political philosophy.
I have not read the comic, but did see the movie.
I found the movie fairly entertaining and though somewhat dark and sometimes slow in its exposition, it generally was a good movie.
As far as “awakening the sleeping public” is concerned, I doubt anyone outside Westminster will make that realisation.
Portman, could have been tortured a bit more, it certainly would have been a bit more convincing.
The transition between her previous state of indifference to the state and to the full fledged rebel was weak. (see Winstons conversion in 1984, using rats and room 101), very effective and believable.
I liked the shaven head though, very sexy.
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