Broken
Toys
Random comments about
games and tractors
I’m not crazy! The world? Different story entirely.

That wascally wabbit.
A more serious analysis from Stratfor impressed me this morning. It’s subscriber-only so I’ll quote the more relevant bits.
It must be emphatically pointed out that the Muslim rejection of the cartoons does not derive from a universalistic view that one should respect religions. The criticism does not derive from a secularist view that holds all religions in equal indifference and requires “sensitivity” not on account of theologies, but in order to avoid hurting anyone’s feelings. The Muslim view is theological: The Prophet Mohammed is not to be ridiculed or portrayed. But violating the sensibilities of other religions is not taboo. Therefore, Muslims frequently, in action, print and speech, do and say things about other religions — Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism — that followers of these religions would find defamatory. The Taliban, for example, were not concerned about the views among other religions when they destroyed the famous Buddhas in Bamiyan. The Muslim demand is honest and authentic: It is for respect for Islam, not a general secular respect for all beliefs as if they were all equal.
In terms of the dialogue over the cartoons, there is enough to amuse even the most jaded observers. The sight of Muslims arguing the need for greater sensitivity among others, and of advocates of laws against racial hatred demanding absolute free speech, is truly marvelous to behold. There is, of course, one minor difference between the two sides: The Muslims are threatening to kill people who offend them and are burning embassies — in essence, holding entire nations responsible for the actions of a few of their citizens. The European liberals are merely making speeches. They are not threatening to kill critics of the modern secular state. That also distinguishes the Muslims from, say, Christians in the United States who have been affronted by National Endowment for the Arts grants.
These are not trivial distinctions. But what is important is this: The controversy over the cartoons involves issues so fundamental to the two sides that neither can give in. The Muslims cannot accept visual satire involving the Prophet. Nor can the Europeans accept that Muslims can, using the threat of force, dictate what can be published. Core values are at stake, and that translates into geopolitics.
In one sense, there is nothing new or interesting in intellectual inconsistency or dishonesty. Nor is there very much new about Muslims — or at least radical ones — threatening to kill people who offend them. What is new is the breadth of the Muslim response and the fact that it is directed obsessively not against the United States, but against European states.
One of the primary features of the U.S.-jihadist war has been that each side has tried to divide the other along a pre-existing fault line. For the United States, in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the manipulation of Sunni-Shiite tensions has been evident. For the jihadists, and even more for non-jihadist Muslims caught up in the war, the tension between the United States and Europe has been a critical fault line to manipulate. It is significant, then, that the cartoon affair threatens to overwhelm both the Euro-American split and the Sunni-Shiite split. It is, paradoxically, an affair that unifies as well as divides.
Welcome to the future, where the United States decries cartoon violence with no irony whatsoever.
| Print article |
about 4 years ago
You’ve gotta be kidding me. Did I accidently fall into my wayback machine? I didn’t much care for the 80s the first time through.
about 4 years ago
All I know is this, I’m a liberal and the muslims of the world are doing a pretty damn good job of proving that I’d be a fool not to fear them.
Perhaps they might want to understand that I’m not a foolish man and I do to scare easily and if they succeed in frightening me, I’ll see no reason at all not to wipe them from the face of the earth to remove the threat to my children.
WTF are they trying to prove these days? That they are in fact a real threat that can’t be dealt with rationally? They are in fact the intolerant ones? That this really is a situation of kill them all before they kill us? Are they really this stupid? Have they not seen what *WE* can do when *WE ALL* set our minds to a thing? Do they really not understand the American Republic? We function day to day with one hand tied behind our back as our political system is one of restraint and inner conflict. Muslims really don’t want to see what we can do when we use both hands.
Know what I’m saying?
about 4 years ago
I think it’s unfortunate that the quoted article and at least one responder groups all Muslims under the same umbrella. Certainly this is not the case. To say that Muslims must be feared, or that Muslims react this way or that way is to say that all Christians believe the hate speech that spews from Pat Robertson’s mouth.
This is really what feeds this “war.” The idea that you are “evil” or I am “evil,” or that you or I am to be feared. This idea that there can be no path to understanding, no ground to give, no negotiation, no tolerance, no end goal other than the absolute destruction of the other side is what drives this kind of hate.
Great headline though. I heart cable news.
Amber
about 4 years ago
Amber,
I’ve heard much of the same from liberals but what I seldom, if ever, hear from muslims is stating that something was wrong. Where are the moderate Muslims who decry this? Why is it that, since 9/11, only a handful of Islamic evils have been condemned publically? I mean it took 5 or 6 beheadings of foreigners before someone in Iraq issued a Fatwah saying it was wrong. Why is it taking so long for someone in Islam to stand up and say this is wrong?
The problem is that the Jihad knows no bounds. The Jihadists will not hesitate to kill anyone who does not agree with them, even if that person is a Muslim. Even Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Al Quada, has been bombed for their interactions with the US. So if you stand up and decry the violence then you aren’t a real Muslim and deserve to die. Thus is the state of Islam today, where hard right idealists are the ones who control the debate. Simply put, they are the only ones heard because few, if any, would dare to step up and speak against it, assuming they did disagree with it.
Thus Islam tends to be lumped together as one giant, angst-filled mass.
What amazes me is how liberals continue to decry actions like this without being willing to take action to stop it. Watch Iran as they get away with building nukes and watch as Europe condemns the US for taking decisive action. I have little hope that Iran, home of the craziest hardcore conservative nutjob on the planet, can be dissuaded diplomatically because this guy believes, along with half of Iran, that if they can create enough chaos in the world they can bring about the return of Allah (or whatever the end of the world for Islam is).
All the has to happen for evil to prosper is for good men to sit by and do nothing.
about 4 years ago
There is no demonstration in nations like Syria and Iran that is not only sanctioned by their tyrant leaders, but indeed participation is required by those leaders.
If the citizens of the United States or another western nation were to rise up and burn down the Danish embassy, Denmark would rightly take it as an act of war, and would deserve no less than a sincere and contrite apology.
When the Danish embassy burns down in Syria, it’s par for the course.
The people of these nations may or may not be ready to engage in serious, mature relations with their global neighbors. Their leaders, however, are clearly not.
about 4 years ago
I’m with D-0ne. They seek to kill us and destroy our civilization. They aren’t humans. They cannot be rationalized with. I am not an evil person, I deplore war. But I’m coming to the conclusion that war might be justified in this case. It’s us or them.
I know this is an unpopular opinion in our civilization. But they seek to destroy us, and cannot be rationalized with.
What is our recourse?
about 4 years ago
This reminds me of something:
KNOW YE THIS O MAN OF FAITH!
I – There is no Goddess but Goddess and She is Your Goddess. There is no Erisian Movement but The Erisian Movement and it is The Erisian Movement. And every Golden Apple Corps is the beloved home of a Golden Worm.
II – A Discordian Shall Always use the Official Discordian Document Numbering System.
III – A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & Partake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Ceremony to Remonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom (no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat of Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (no Hot Dog Buns).
IV – A Discordian shall Partake of No Hot Dog Buns, for Such was the Solace of Our Goddess when She was Confronted with The Original Snub.
V – A Discordian is Prohibited of Believing what he reads.
IT IS SO WRITTEN! SO BE IT. HAIL DISCORDIA! PROSECUTORS WILL BE TRANSGRESSICUTED.
about 4 years ago
I’m as liberal as it gets. America does not go to war lightly. Hence, we get this half assed stuff we’ve been doing in Iraq. Lets all just agree that we do not have our heart in the Iraq war and leave it at that.
Iraq was a secular nation… I digress.
Point is, if the violence doesn’t stop. We as a people may be forced to stop it. While I do not expect every American to get onboard with this idea (I’d be amazed if in a free nation there was ever the appearance that there wasn’t an opposition.) more and more of us on the left are starting to accept the idea that we may have to go to war against Islam in the middle east.
We are running out of choices.
about 4 years ago
The clerics have been pretty much universally stating this is stupid, and the protesters need to stop with the violent slogans, and it’s against the religion.
The problem here is that you have problems when you decry this AFTER the fact, and they’re already protesting.
In addition, all news media likes bad news. There’s no readership in covering a peaceful protester. You need to find the protest with the radicals, They are a story that will get you noticed.
While Iran and Syria’s leaders may be crazed and wanting a war, the general muslim populace is no more after your blood than your general midwestern wants to wipe all muslims and commies off the planet.
It’s not that the moderates aren’t speaking out against the violence, it’s that the media doesn’t see a story in them, it sees a story in the abnormal. Nobody covers the 200 people around the country who changed their tires and went on with their lives, but we have front page news about the three people in south boston who changed their tire and were shot while doing it. That’s a story.
We have a capitalist media, they’ll print what people want to see, and nobody wants to see something boring, like a bunch of people standing around going “we’re offended”, but they’ll be interested in a bunch of people screaming “DEATH TO THE WEST!”.
But we’re no better. We’re just as willing to lump the moderates in with the extremists, then get all pissy when people think we’re all related to the wackos protesting King’s funeral and telling us our troops are dying because we allow gay couples, or that Pat Robertson is one of our high holy religious figures.
As I said, I’ll give you Iran and Syria as trouble, and needing to be addressed by the rest of the world. But the rest of it has less to do with being Muslim, and more to do with the region of the world they’re in. Africa’s awfully violent, too.
about 4 years ago
Er, hit post too early. What I meant to say is the part about how they don’t seem to care about mocking other religions, but their own is sacred. All religions really need an escape clause for dealing with their own silliness.
about 4 years ago
I was intruiged by this whole event when I learned of it on a comic I read. A search of the web and found the original comics, besides the bomb turban, there really isn’t much insulting, or even funny about the comics besides the depiction of mohomad (one of them, interestingly enough qualifies as an acceptable picture of mohamad because it was a picture of him before he was visited by angels.) And apperantly depictions of mohomad aren’t all that uncomon.
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
The page loads slowly, and if you want to see any images you’ll have to reload each image multiple times, but it has some interesting things to say about the depiction of mohamed.
Oh, also on one of the CNN articles, they had quoted one of the iranian leaders as saying the images were part of a conspiracy by the jews, due to hamas’s election win. That’s an interesting take considering they won last month, and the cartoons were published in the danish paper in… SEPTEMBER!
Which brings up the question, why the hell did it take half a fricking year for everyone to care so much about the stupid cartoons?
about 4 years ago
Israel won’t let Iran get a nuclear bomb. See here. And according to this, Israel is ready to take out any Iranian facilities that could make bombs or bomb material. As the Six Day War showed us, Israel has no problems with a first strike. If Iran does begin bomb making, Israel will do all it can to stop Iran. After all, Iran’s President has called for the destruction of Israel.
Islam has been hijacked by the extremists. Only Muslims are to blame for this and only Muslims can take it back. Where is the Muslim uproar decrying the radical elements, the uproar that should be drowning out the few voices of extremism? Where are the cries of, “These actions do not represent our religion and these people do not represent us!” from the Muslims of the world? Until Muslims and the Muslim world stand up to these thugs, kick them out of their countries and treat them like the murderers they are, Islam will be seen by the rest of the world as a barbaric religion that condones no other views but their own, willing to kill to force their beliefs on everyone.
Unfortunately, there isn’t much that can be done from the outside, from the non-Muslim world, to effect these changes. Outside pressures will only be twisted by the radicals as assults on their religion. The best we can do is keep pointing the proverbal finger at the extremeists and ask why the millions of peaceful Muslims don’t deal with their internal problems.
I’m not saying we just roll over and let the extremists have their way. We have the right to defend ourselves from threats. I was all for the invasion of Afghanistan. The Taliban and El Qaeda were criminals. They commited murder and are now paying for their crimes. But the invasion did nothing to curb radicalism in Islam. If anything, it pushed more Muslims to the extreme. Which is why only Muslims can retake their religion. Any outside pressure or force will be seen as an assult on Islam and push more Muslims towards the extreme view. It is past time for the peaceful Muslims of the world to stand up to the terrorists and the leaders of the extremist countries and say, “You do not represent our beliefs and we will no longer follow you!” Only when this happens can the extremist be truely defeated for then they lose their support and power base. Until that time, the West will continue to view much of the Muslim world as a threat (which it is) and treat them accordingly.
about 4 years ago
Looks like part of the riots blame can be laid at the feet of Danish Imams who apparently threw in 3 extra pics not published by the paper. One of them appears to be a picture of an Arab with a pig snout but which turns out to be a French clown at a pig festival.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004505.htm
And, like it or not, when the majority refuse to silence a minority in cases like this they are condoning the problem. I don’t buy that we’re only getting one side from the press. It might be part of the problem but far from the problem itself. And at least AP is indeed reporting the few clerics who have the balls to say it’s wrong. The problem is it’s too few and to scattered to be of much good. Honestly, if the problem here is media coverage then why is it that the riots continue with such fervor in most Middle Eastern countries? Where are the people who disagree?
The situation for Islam will only improve when this supposed peaceful majority stands up and strongly rejects violence. The problem is many people, myself included, no longer believe that exists.
about 4 years ago
“Which brings up the question, why the hell did it take half a fricking year for everyone to care so much about the stupid cartoons?”
250+ people killed at the Hajj?
http://muttawa.blogspot.com/2006/01/prams-toys-rattles-and-dummies.html
about 4 years ago
Islam needs a Martin Luther, or it will not survive.
There are certain parallels to be drawn; pre-Reformation Christianity did start to get out of control, which is what prompted Martin Luther to do the equivalent of a bitchy blog post. Frankly, in the long run I think the Reformation did more good than anything else; it forced Christianity to look itself in the mirror.
Islam desperately needs someone to tell adherents to ‘put up or shut up’. Too many Muslims stay silent, or remain neutral, while the fundamentalists rage out of control. Turkow has it pretty solidly, and I’ll add this: change needs to occur, and soon. What happens if a Islamic terrorist smuggles a nuclear device into a major Western city, and detonates it? Not necessarily in the U.S., either — Brussels, Berlin, Paris, or London.
I shudder to consider the consequences of such an event.
–TR
about 4 years ago
Hmmm, poor people rioting, wealthier people not rioting. Wealthier people suggesting that the rioting is caused by factors inherant to the ethnicity of the poor people. I’ve seen this before. Nothing unusual. Move along.
about 4 years ago
This thread is starting to sound like the ltm forums shortly after 9/11. Who’s going to be the first to call for the Middle East to be ‘turned to glass’ ?
about 4 years ago
“They seek to kill us and destroy our civilization. They aren\’e2\’80\’99t humans. They cannot be rationalized with.”
Dude, get help.
That’s Final Solution-speak. 100%.
about 4 years ago
I promise not to condemn the minute I see the US taking decisive action. Honest.
about 4 years ago
Both the instigating events (the rioting) and the response (eliminate the rioters) are pretty standard fare. Just in easy American memory we see the riots following Martin Luther King’s death, the post-Rodney King Verdict LA riots, the Hispanic riots in LA during WWII, the Irish in the Civil War draft riots, and so on. Disenfranchised urban poor tend to riot, it is one of the reasons urban poverty is a problem. And commentators tend to look for reasons beyond poverty and population density, even though those two tend to be enough tinder for the inevitable match, as can be observed throughout history.
about 4 years ago
The really infureating part of all this to me is how two faced the Muslim world is acting. From an href=”http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings”>AP report today I quote,
“In Beirut, Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah urged Muslims worldwide to keep demonstrating until there is an apology over the drawings and Europe passes laws forbidding insults to the prophet.”
These people demand we adobt the rules of their religion as a sign of respect while calling for the destruction of Jews and Israel. When will they learn that until they show respect for others’ religions, they have absolutely no right to expect, let alone demand, respect for their own?
about 4 years ago
I forgot a little proof. From Wikipedia on Hezbollah,
“Hezbollah supports the destruction of the state of Israel and co-operates with other militant Islamic organizations such as Hamas in order to promote this goal.”
about 4 years ago
As outrageous as I find both violence over a cartoon and calls to “eliminate the problem,” one thing keeps going through my head – this is not a time in which I’d want to be a middle class, educated Muslim.
about 4 years ago
I really have to say that I’m stunned at some of the comments I’ve been reading in this post. “They aren’t humans,” “they seek to…destroy our civilization,” and frequent use of the word “they” and “these people” to lump millions of peaceful human beings into a comparitively small number of fringe extremists. This is the kind of thinking that leads to very bad *bad* things.
I think I can safely say that all of us would like to see the spread of fundamental radicalism throughout the world. So I find sentements that basically amount to “nuke the fuckers” to be quite ironic indeed.
about 4 years ago
I am sorry librals and humanitarians but you are literally correct. Millions of peacful muslims are included in the lump sum of they….too bad about a BILLION of them are upset(to varying degrees).
Boston’s Muslim group, that I cannot recall the name of I believe The Islamic Society of Boston, had actually applauded the rioters. Not specifically saying what aspect, but applauding them never the less. I was unable to find a quote on the Islamic Society’s website, but it was a blip on local news for a day or two. These are supposed to be moderates?
CNN had articles running about the moderates being upset in Denmark and the UK. Why would the moderates sit around and give a microphone to some asswipe who screams “jihad derka derka mohammad death to America”? Especially where they CAN take a stand against the asswipes legally.
I don’t think all muslims are bad, just introduce me to one that isn’t a hypocrate and I will show you the muslim I trust.
about 4 years ago
There has never been a more perfect political comment then this in my lifetime, which is probably longer then most of yours.
The cartoon of the bomb hat itself produced the result it was intended to satirize. Like perfectly recursive code or a time travel movie where something in the future causes something in the past to occur.
Awesome. A perfect flower of political thought.
about 4 years ago
Bear in mind, a small militant minority of the Christian religion was responsible for the Crusades. This has happened before, and the outcome is apparent.
There will eventually be either a Muslim Martin Luther, as stated above, or a global war. It will be an actual war, with a start and an end- unlike the current one we have going on “terrorism” and other concepts like “drugs” and “poverty”. I hope for humanity’s sake that it opts for the prior, because pluralism isn’t going to fix this.
about 4 years ago
Or the sun will come up tomorrow, and all this will pass. I’ve seen America’s cities burn. We got over it. Repeatedly. The only difference between this and the riots that have happened since we started having cities large enough to have a bad side of town is that it happened in the last week.
about 4 years ago
I wish I could believe that, Evangolis.
–TR
about 4 years ago
The “Poor people rioting, not unusual” comments almost had me believing that maybe this was no different than so many riots that happen around the world and at home, but there is one key difference. These rioters are applauded and endorced by some of the enfranchised. When people with power and wealth are egging the rioters on and applauding their actions, that’s something you need to be worried about. When people of power are directing the disenfranchised poor, that’s when revolutions and wars come about.
The poor rioting isn’t uncommon, nor really, considering history, is the poor rioting under the direction of the powerful, however when that happens, you need to pay attention unless you want the poor trampeling all over your ass.
about 4 years ago
Funny thing is that the cartoons themselves were apparently published in that journal in denmark months ago already and while they got a couple protests, nothing worldwide.
Then apparently a French guy called Levy published the whole thing again in a french journal called France Soir and commented on them, creating the snowballing crisis we have now. Why would a journal such as France Soir (about to go bankrupt I think) would publish stuff like that out of the blue…no idea.
As for the whole problem. screw them all, all races and religions and colors and underwears…
about 4 years ago
Laugh it Up
about 4 years ago
“Laugh it Up”
I am offended!! Now I must riot, kidnap, death threaten, burn flags and buildings in retaliation!
Puh-leez…
about 4 years ago
Guys, it’s as simple as the Saudis re-printing racist cartoons from Z-list Danish rags and drawing a few extra of their own to sweeten the pot- then handing them out via their standard mainline-to-extreme channels. They orchestrate a lot of these controlled explosions into other folks’ property.
I’d like to point out that the logical result of things like this is likely to be American disengagement from the Middle East in all forms.
about 4 years ago
Oh. and of course those rioters just jazzed down to their local Wal-Mart and picked up all those Danish flags they burned on sale, because as everyone knows, Danish flags are one thing that you can find everywhere.
about 4 years ago
“I\’e2\’80\’99d like to point out that the logical result of things like this is likely to be American disengagement from the Middle East in all forms.”
Not a chance while our economy and lifestyle are soooooo dependant on oil.